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Thread ID: 126726	2012-09-15 03:31:00	Computer wont boot after power surge	antares (16890)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1301068	2012-09-18 07:22:00	Stop being such a twat -- I have a friend who knows someone who said the disk drive was defective. That proves power loss killed the drive? Nonsense. And that helps the OP how? Junk science reasoning using hearsay or speculation does nothing for the OP. Power loss does not harm electronic hardware. But some have so little grasp as to even describe Dell and HP using profanity - as if that was useful. Cheapshots, insults, and profanity quickly identify the most useless recommendations. Useful is to do what informed techs do. Change nothing. Fix nothing. Disconnect no wires. Execute diagnostics to first learn what is defective. Then a best solution can be can recommended. So that data is not at risk. And so that future problems can be averted. Step one: is a defect in software or hardware? Still unknown. Best solution starts by first using a diagnostic to identifying a defect either in hardware or software. Wild speculation and cheapshots do not help the OP.	westom (16792)
1301069	2012-09-18 07:58:00	I have a friend who knows someone who said the disk drive was defective. That proves power loss killed the drive? Nonsense. And that helps the OP how? Junk science reasoning using hearsay or speculation does nothing for the OP. Power loss does not harm electronic hardware. But some have so little grasp as to even describe Dell and HP using profanity - as if that was useful. Cheapshots, insults, and profanity quickly identify the most useless recommendations. Useful is to do what informed techs do. Change nothing. Fix nothing. Disconnect no wires. Execute diagnostics to first learn what is defective. Then a best solution can be can recommended. So that data is not at risk. And so that future problems can be averted. Step one: is a defect in software or hardware? Still unknown. Best solution starts by first using a diagnostic to identifying a defect either in hardware or software. Wild speculation and cheapshots do not help the OP. Wainuitech is a respected and informed tech, with over 16,000 posts. You.....are not. I know who I'd believe.	Nick G (16709)
1301070	2012-09-18 08:40:00	Wainuitech is a respected and informed tech, with over 16,000 posts. You.....are not. I know who I'd believe. +1	CliveM (6007)
1301071	2012-09-18 09:05:00	Thats rich Westom, you mention "useless recommendations" , so far thats all that has been posted by yourself. I have a friend who knows someone who said the disk drive was defective. That proves power loss killed the drive? Nonsense I never said that - Please do point out the exact post, and quote what I wrote stating that. I said data can be corrupted due to a power Lose. If data is corrupted the drive can still be working 100% - totally different. Stating numbers and so called regulations on manufacturing specifications means absolutely nothing. Dont know who you're trying to impress with figures - certainly appears no one here cares. Its a help forum, what about actually making some suggestion to a real fix ? Stating that Bootdisk.com has diagnostic software means nothing as well. Why don't you advise as to WHAT software on bootdisk.com the OP or anyone else reading this forum can use ??? I know why ;) , and please dont say because using the wrong software can lose data - even yourself said Diagnostic software cant do any harm---prove it by posting something of value. Useful is to do what informed techs do. Change nothing. Fix nothing. Disconnect no wires. Execute diagnostics to first learn what is defective. Then a best solution can be can recommended. So that data is not at risk. And so that future problems can be averted. Some good points, sure locate the problem, but once again the quoted text can be incorrect. Example, lets say a motherboard has failed - now according to your reasoning, the HDD cant be removed to see if the data is safe or needs recovery by other means. Another suggestion written earlier: Best is to use recommendations from someone who was fixing this stuff long before the IBM PC existed:lol: Going by that suggestion there wouldn't be any techs under the age of 40 and younger than that knows nothing or lacks experience. One question Westom - What do have in the way of a explanation on the web site linked, which really when you read it, goes against a lot of what was stated by yourself ? Please Dont do what lots do - Dont avoid the question.	wainuitech (129)
1301072	2012-09-18 10:18:00	Why don't you advise as to WHAT software on bootdisk.com the OP or anyone else reading this forum can use ??? What gets executed would be obvious. Much diagnostic software is unique for that hardware. Obviously, if he has a Western Digital disk drive, then he executes a best diagnostic: one provided to bootdisk.com by Western Digital. How much simpler do you need it? Other details can be provided if the OP chooses. Of course comprehensive diagnostics, provided for free by more responsible computer manufacturers, are even easier. Will report even more. With so many caustic insults, why would the OP ever post here again? Caustic insults and profanity says most replies will only be wasted bandwidth. After your lecture, what is defective - hardware or software? I read plenty of speculation. And not one statement useful to the OP. Not one fact says what has failed. That is the point. Solution starts by first identifying the defect. Rather than argue semantics, instead, tell the OP what has failed. Not what might be damaged in any computer. Instead, help the OP. Two powerful tools were recommended repeatedly. Facts and numbers from either diagnostic will say more than what most all have posted here. Diagnostic can even suggest if a motherboard is defective. You should have known that. But without hard facts and numbers, every reply can only be wild speculation. Which explains your many replies that still refuse to identify the OP's defect.	westom (16792)
1301073	2012-09-18 11:02:00	What gets executed would be obvious Really ?? I think you forget where you are reading . If a person comes on a help forum asking for help, that usually means they dont know something - hence the reason for asking in the first place . While a logical process may be obvious to someone with the knowledge - some people tend to forget the people asking for help dont have such knowledge . So by stating what you did in a way you are insulting every person who comes to this forum asking for help . Stating all sorts of manufacturing spec's, while interesting is totally wasted, they mean nothing concerning the problem . One thing that is correct, sure figure out whats the problem before progressing on . I been doing this job for many years, seen all sorts of cowboy techs cause disastrous results, some are fixable some are not . One thing I did notice, and I asked politely twice for you to prove some things and they are totally ignored By refusing to answer could suggest a person doesn't like it when what they written is questioned, as they cant prove what was stated, and most people will know what that could actually mean .	wainuitech (129)
1301074	2012-09-18 12:18:00	Really ?? I think you forget where you are reading. What gets executed is obvious to any layman. If further assistance is required, the OP can ask. Provided was what any layman can implement to start a solution. But with so many emotionally posted cheapshots, then why would the OP bother? Comprehensive hardware diagnostics provided free by better computer manufacturers are even easier. A best solution to locating any defect. A question answered means asking one that is readable. What did you ask? I am not going to answer a question that makes no sense. Nobody writes a book to answer one vague or confusing question. Ironic is your use of the word polite. Since words such as twat are only posted by the emotional and nasty posters. So I am a twat for simply posting technical answers? You take great liberties associating yourself with the word polite.	westom (16792)
1301075	2012-09-18 21:26:00	What gets executed is obvious to any layman . If further assistance is required, the OP can ask . Provided was what any layman can implement to start a solution . But with so many emotionally posted cheapshots, then why would the OP bother? Comprehensive hardware diagnostics provided free by better computer manufacturers are even easier . A best solution to locating any defect . . The last line above is partly correct, yes manufactures diagnostics is usually good, but its not always the best solution, third party can sometimes be better . One I use a lot is MSDART, has a lot more recovery and repair options . But the first line written, once again I'll repeat myself, since it appears only certain comments are read . Once again, within 24 hours insulting anyone who comes to PF1 asking for help . This is a HELP FORUM, which means people come here asking for help for something they dont know . Now if someone starts commenting with replies that make them out to be a dummy, or as you do, run them down because of your sometimes questionable knowledge on power related problems, of course they wont come back . I've just looked back over all your previous posts, there has been two different threads replied to ( excluding this one) - in both cases the answers were along the same lines - run down anyones replies, and saying things like they are myths, rumors etc . Then when someone actually questions a reply you start getting nasty . Below is a quote from one of your replies: Once again you make empty accusations due to insufficient electrical knowledge . In earlier posts in this thread you made several comments, one saying I said something, which I never did . I asked proof of where I wrote it, and you bluntly ignored it . I also posted a site, which contradicted several of your comments, when asked your option on the site, once again totally ignored . Many sites and businesses world wide have articles that are basically opposite to what you posted, or can prove otherwise . As I said before, dont know who you're trying to impress . One question - Why is it you only post in three threads relating to power in one form or another since joining in Dec 2011, and every time run down others comments, and then get nasty when questioned ?	wainuitech (129)
1301076	2012-09-18 22:53:00	One question - Why is it you only post in three threads relating to power in one form or another since joining in Dec 2011, and every time run down others comments, and then get nasty when questioned ? You don't see me recommending a best age defying cream . Or antibiotics . I am not extremely knowledgeable in those topics . But I know electronics and power due to generations of design experience . And almost as much time retraining techs into how to think through problems . I don't reply to trivial problems . Anyone can answer those . But I will consistently address recommendations created by popular urban myths . Exposing urban myths tends to make others emotional and angry; rather then ask to learn the basics . Most emotional, as I believe you suggested, are often computer techs who only learned shotgunning . One popular urban myth is that low voltage or sudden power loss can harm electronics . Never true even decades before the IBM PC existed . Also provided were numerous hard facts (at a layman's level) that further demonstrated why power off is not hardware destructive . But too many see a blackout . Then see damage . Then 'assume' a blackout did damage . Classic junk science reasoning is knowledge from observation . All in elementary school science were taught to not do that . Two examples of junk science reasoning were spontaneious reproduction and that moldy bread breeds maggots . Conclusions based only in observation . Junk science occurs when underlying concepts and fundamental science principles are ignored . Many just know power loss causes damage only using observation . Same myths also define power loss as a surge . Another example of junk science reasoning: power cycling a light bulb causes premature bulb failure . If one knows otherwise, then the doubter posts facts and numbers that say 'why' he doubts . Any reply that only denies is an 'empty accusation' . "I just know it must be because I saw it" simply insults those who learned how to think logically . From science: observation alone is insufficient to even create a hypothesis . So, the OP cannot boot . Is his problem in hardware or software? He posted zero reasons to suspect a surge . And numerous reasons to suspect a manufacturing defect . Solution starts by answering his question . He asked, "Does this mean my hard disk has failed?" Answer is simple . Execute a manufacturer's comprehensive hardware diagnostic or some other 'layman simple' diagnostic such as from bootdisk . com . Stated repeatedly . Any answer without such facts is only wild speculation . That insults no one . That calls no one a dummy . It says what one does to have a quick answer without doubt . If one thinks that well proven procedure calls him a dummy, well, he really needs to learn some basic concepts rather than become emotional . Many want to fix things immediately rather than first learn what is defective . An example of how to put data at risk . Instead, think through a problem . Simplest solution starts with diagnostics . Simply boot from the CD-Rom . Menus are layman simple . Then further assistance can be provided without speculation . But again, I keep recommending a solution AND why that solution is a best solution . OP probably was not going to reply since many posted emotionally . Rather than ask why diagnostics are so powerful, or say why the urban myth has credibilty, instead, many only replied with cheapshots or empty accusations . One even said I must be wrong because others are electricians . How does that make him informed? An honest poster will, instead, include reasons why with technical numbers . Then learn from someone who was doing this stuff at the semiconductor level; when disk heads were moved even by motor oil . I ignored questions that were so badly worded as to not make sense . I expected you to read thoise questions, realize the confusion, and repost a corrected and specific question . Every question that was posted with a technical basis was answered; and not with an empty accusation . If you have doubts, then your reply says, always with facts and numbers, why you do not agree . Otherwise the question is just too vague, too general, or just plain confusing . If the OP executes those diagnostics, then what follows is specific and useful assistance - without speculation or justified by urban myths . The concept is simple: "follow the evidence" . As with previous posts, this paragraph provides the OP with how to obtain a solution - quickly . And how to make possible replies from the fewer who actually know this stuff .	westom (16792)
1301077	2012-09-18 23:07:00	Westom, I'm only going to say one thing. Thanks very much for an entertaining couple of days.:thumbs: Early on you manged to show true colours. You want FACTS - try these ;) I did a google search of your login name westom the first result listed I just about fell off the chair laughing. 4256 Upon opening it, read it and had a chuckle, back clicked, and the option to expand out the get more discussion results appears. Looked at the previews, and opened a few, read what OTHERS have been saying. Seems my friend you have a habit of really annoying hundreds of people all over the world on several forums, many say the same thing ---- well have a read PF1 members - a warning though - theres plenty of laughs in what others say. :D As any layman (as you put it), the westom in those threads is the same person here and anyone can see Its the same MO all over the world, tries to be a know it, and cant actually back it up. Thanks -- good laugh for the week :)	wainuitech (129)
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