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| Thread ID: 22205 | 2002-07-14 10:16:00 | off topic- what did you think of ........ | tweak'e (174) | Press F1 |
| Post ID | Timestamp | Content | User | ||
| 62440 | 2002-07-15 02:33:00 | > but on the catch side if they did the job properly it > would have cost more and more often than not the > customer would have got someone esle to do it > cheaper. catch 22 get all the gear do every job to > the letter of the law and you risk priceing your self > out of the market. I totally agree with this comment. it's a bit of strange situation.. on one hand it's opening the eyes of the consumer, on the other it's giving electricians a bit of a bad name. who is the consumer to trust now for electrical work? I guess it will be a bad week for sparkies this week! ;-) |
codegirl (1038) | ||
| 62441 | 2002-07-15 02:43:00 | just one last (i promise ;-)) comment- i think customers need to be taught the value of safety. i've had cust try to force me to work (under contract) on a metal roof with power tools in heavy rain. sorry but i don't get paid well enough to risk getting electrocuted. i wont mention the amount of home made leads with the wires mixed up, or the one i was getting belts off their gear because they had sprayed water (removing wallpaper) all over there power points/leads/tv/radio/lamp in the room. trust me when you've been 'bitten' (zapped) a few times you learn the value of safety. |
tweak'e (174) | ||
| 62442 | 2002-07-15 02:44:00 | The policing of the industry is also flawed. If work by a registered person is found to be unsafe, that person is (correctly) disciplined. If, on the other hand a lay person does something similar, is similarly reported, then in most cases nothing happens (or at worse a slap with a wet bus ticket). I have seen this occur even with full evidence provided, and when the activity endangered other people. Step outside the industry and look at parallels. Drive badly with a licence, you will lose it and face disciplinary action. Drive badly without a licence and you face the same disciplinary action plus more for no licence. On the "off topic" there is a reason why CoC's are not used. If you don't put one in you won't be audited... |
godfather (25) | ||
| 62443 | 2002-07-15 02:47:00 | I think the Trade was better in my day. Old Fogie Poppa John :O :O (once or twice) |
Poppa John (284) | ||
| 62444 | 2002-07-15 05:14:00 | The electrical industry in NZ is its own worst enemy. There is no excuse at all for the shoddy work as shown on Target, but the idiots in the industry seem to think that the only way to survive is to undercut the next guy, and to do that you must cut corners. "Testing is only done when something doesn't work" is a common catchcry. Mind you, the customers are to blame here as well. Nobody seems to think twice about paying a mechanic $60 an hour to work on their beloved Ford or Holden, but Heaven help them if a sparky tries to charge more than about $30. (But wait, I'll do it for $25" says the next one). What' s safety got to do with it when all we want is a cheap job!!?? If the public wants a better standard of service, then stop employing the cheapest cowboys in town! And Billy - ECP 28 and the regs both state that in a 3 phase system, phase conductors may be any colour except green or green/yellow in combination. These are definitely for earthing conductors only in all systems (unless you have a really old german AEG drill with the red earth wire!!). Regards, andy |
andy (473) | ||
| 62445 | 2002-07-15 06:11:00 | I was told once by someone who was once involved with that show that they can go through 100 tradesmen to find 4 bad ones. Makes you wonder how many good sparkies got it right to find those four! |
cadifan (286) | ||
| 62446 | 2002-07-15 07:53:00 | Sorry Andy, read again! ECP 28 (2.3.2) says the neutral must be black, the earth green or green & yellow. Colour choice is restricted to the phase conductors only. I quoted NZS 3000 but the two are essentially the same. ECP 28 is a trifle ambiguous on flexible conductors but 2 and 3 core must use P-Brown, N-Blue and E-Green/yellow. Multicore flexible cords (more than 3 cores) are open to choice with only the earth colour specified. NZS 3000 is equally ambiguous in that 301.4.5 says the active conductors of flexible cords may be any colour except green, but 301.4.2 precedes and preempts that by saying tha colours must conform to Table 1. Not surprisingly, Table 1 specifies Black for the neutral and allows free choice of phase conductors only for multiphase systems but that table doesn't apply to flexible cables. Since the ECPs and Standards are considered to be a "means of compliance" only i.e they are not binding and you can do it some otherway if you can prove that it is equally safe (brave men/women only should attempt this), however the regulations would take precedence in my opinion as they are statutory provisions and legally enforceable. As such they are the basis of all disciplinary actions by the EWRB (not the ECPs or the standard). So, I go back to my original point that Reg 71 is the golden rule here. Reg 71 (3) (a) says that the neutral must be black (or light blue for flexible cords) for systems identified by colour. The wording of the Reg makes it clear that these two colours may NOT be used for any other conductor. Therefore it stands that flexible cords cannot have reversible phase and neutral conductors. Finally, I would not follow your own opinion for three phase systems if I were you as "any colour" for phase conductors definitely does not include black! It pays to read Regs, ECPs and Standards very carefully before being adventurous with neutral colour choices. Cheers Billy 8-{) |
Billy T (70) | ||
| 62447 | 2002-07-15 07:56:00 | Someone got it wrong then . I've had dealings with Target (in defence of a subject) and they don't troll through the tradesmen to find the bad guys . Sadly the bad guys are all too easy to find . Cheers Billy 8-{( :( |
Billy T (70) | ||
| 62448 | 2002-07-15 08:32:00 | > The big problem in this country is that for ever and > a day, the electricians have maintained exclusive job > protection, prevented electrical education, > prevented mature people from entering the trade, and > other restrictive practices, using safety as the > reason. I don't agree with that assessment Terry, and the facts don't support it. 1) Electrical education has always been available to all who wanted it. 2) Mature people have always been able to enter the trade and I have personally assisted several to achieve that goal. 3) The electrical trade does not practice restrictive practices but I suspect you are referring to the Registration and Licencing system. Registration is and always has been a New Zealand Government policy (since 1927 anyway). The hazards of electricity use and electrical work are deemed such that the general public need the protection annd assurance offered by a government administered licencing regime. Before you choke Terry, I should add that IMHO last night's efforts show that access has been too easy, not too hard. It is not job protection Terry, it is people protection. Registration will be granted to any person who meets the skill, knowledge and experience requirements laid down in the Act and Regulations. Age is not a criteria, nor is good character, good looks or a Kiwi accent. Licensing will be granted to any person of any age and there has never been a agist policy or barrier to mature persons. In my not inconsiderable experience in this area, I have found that the main impediment to mature persons entering the electrical trade has been their attitude that they should be granted some exemption that is not available to those of lesser years. I have been forced to give up on some individuals who simply refused to take the necessary steps to gain registration. I hasten to add that I am not suggesting that you personally would fall into that category, but there has been a pervasive belief among some immigrants that what was good enough back home will just have to do for the colonial upstarts. The electrical trade does not control the industry, the people of New Zealand do, through their elected representatives who govern the industry, and through their freedom of choice to choose whom they will employ to carry out their electrical work. The standard of electrical work will not improve through deregulation of the trade. It will improve better selection of trainees and through better training of those tradespersons (whatever their age). I could go on (and on and on) but I'll leave it at that. Cheers Billy 8-{) |
Billy T (70) | ||
| 62449 | 2002-07-15 10:18:00 | I will bow to superior experience and knowledge Billy, it was an impression that I got when I came here, eg. when Alan Martin was complaining he could sell items to people, but not tell them how to fit them. I was also under the impression that the only way into registration was through an apprenticeship, that a graduate electrical engineer for example, also had difficulty getting registration unless they went through apprenticeship, but I may be wrong as you indicate. |
Terry Porritt (14) | ||
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