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| Thread ID: 127301 | 2012-10-16 06:48:00 | Power surge troubleshooting | JMoore (9352) | Press F1 |
| Post ID | Timestamp | Content | User | ||
| 1307144 | 2012-10-16 20:17:00 | Did it beep before this happened? not all cases have speakers these days. Normally with a power cut my first suspect is corrupted files on the hard drive as that's the most common result, however with it failing to boot it's likely that it is hardware related this time. Perhaps try Wainui's first suggestion again but remove the BIOS battery as well, going for as hard a reset as possible. If that fails unplug all your Drives and see if it will try to boot, if that makes no difference you are down to PSU, RAM, Graphics, or Motherboard as the next suspects. If it works plug them back in one by one to Identify the culprit. If you have onboard graphics you can remove the graphics card (if you have one of course) to see if it will boot just using onboard. Unfortunately it's almost impossible to diagnose these faults without spare components to swap with or some good instruments and a working knowledge of the electronics involved. You can end up buying new parts one by one trying to fix it, it's probably best after the obvious tests are done to take it in to someone to look at. It's actually unusual for a power cut to cause damage to components, they normally survive it just fine with the exception of possible data corruption. Your surge arrestor is unlikely to have helped, they have a very specific set of circumstances in which they help and in my opinion are of not much value anywhere that has fairly reliable power. If you want to protect from power cuts you need a UPS, surges are actually pretty uncommon. Just a further comment, irrelevant if you wish to skip it. Lightning is one source of surges, your average domestic surge arrestor doesn't have a chance in hell of protecting from that. In roadside telecommunications cabinets they use quality surge arrestors to protect from lightning, mainly induced voltages because a direct strike is basically unstoppable. The earth wire connected to ground has to run as straight and vertical as possible beacuse lightning has so much energy some of it will take the shortest path to ground and leap out of any corners or horizontal runs of cable and arc directly to ground. These devices have to be replaced after a decent strike and are much better than cheapo home arrestors. |
dugimodo (138) | ||
| 1307145 | 2012-10-16 21:03:00 | Unfortunately it's almost impossible to diagnose these faults without spare components to swap with or some good instruments and a working knowledge of the electronics involved. One minute labor (touching wires and reading a number) with a multimeter means others who know this stuff can say what is or is not defective. A power 'system' involves many components. PSU is only one. If nothing is disconnected and the meter provides 3 digit numbers, then the next reply identifies or exonerates every suspect - without doubt. No more 'it could be' replies. Numbers from six wires are critically important. Otherwise, a reply can only be speculation - it might be this or try that. Best is to not even swap the PSU - do not disconnect anything - to have a reliable answer. |
westom (16792) | ||
| 1307146 | 2012-10-16 21:14:00 | Best is to not even swap the PSU Nonsense, swapping a PSU is fast and easy. Quick way to see if it is the issue. |
pctek (84) | ||
| 1307147 | 2012-10-16 21:55:00 | Nonsense, swapping a PSU is fast and easy. Quick way to see if it is the issue. I agree, things like this are infinitely easier to test by "Swapping out with good known parts". In cases like this, I'd hedge my bets on it either being the motherboard or the PSU as pctek mentioned. |
Chilling_Silence (9) | ||
| 1307148 | 2012-10-16 21:57:00 | After this one I've decided to not respond to Westom, his replies are generally not helpful and take the thread off on a tangent. For a start a multimeter has been used and the voltages appear normal. Secondly a multimeter does not tell you if a PSU is functioning correctly, it doesn't reliably show up ripple or fluctuating voltages or show what happens when power is apllied under load. "the next reply identifies or exonerates every suspect" - utter bollox, a multimeter reading tells you exactly what component is preventing the system from booting? on what planet ? it doesn't even prove the PSU other than the fact it does have an output. Finally swapping out components is long established as the quickest and easiest way to eliminate possible causes of a fault, any other method is indeterminate and can take far too long. Never mind Opinions, make useful suggestions about how to diagnose the problem and not just vague statements about 3 digit numbers or stay out of it. People are here asking for help, not for you to advance your theories on PC power systems. |
dugimodo (138) | ||
| 1307149 | 2012-10-16 22:11:00 | A Multimeter is a good test but does not load test so doesn't tell the whole story. Still sounds like a rail is out on the PSU to me. | Alex B (15479) | ||
| 1307150 | 2012-10-16 22:42:00 | For a start a multimeter has been used and the voltages appear normal . Secondly a multimeter does not tell you if a PSU is functioning correctly, it doesn't reliably show up ripple or fluctuating voltages or show what happens when power is apllied under load . It does as long as the PSU and nothing else is disconnected . Once disconnected, then even the meter cannot report useful numbers . Numbers from that meter would identify ripple or fluctuating voltages . It would not say which is the problem . But any of those defects would appear as defective numbers . Many numbers, within ATX specs, may also indicate a defect . Numbers from four other wires are also important . The meter can even identify reasons for intermittents . But this is a hard failure . Easily identified by a meter . We (who even designed power supplies when switchers were a new technology) know how to use a meter to identify so many defects including ripple . Simply measure those six relevant wires - one minute of labor . Apparently you will not . But others are invited to learn . How to even identify a defective supply in a computer that has been booting for months . Numbers from a meter may even do that . Statements are vague because it would take many posts or days to describe what those numbers are reporting . I am not going to teach engineering concepts . Provide numbers to have an answer without speculation in the next reply . You don't know why those three digit numbers are so informative . I do . Alex B described one possible reason . A defective rail could even be the 5 or 12 volts that was assumed good . Cannot say without those three digit numbers . |
westom (16792) | ||
| 1307151 | 2012-10-16 22:51:00 | Statements are vague because it would take many posts or days to describe what those numbers are reporting. I am not going to teach engineering concepts. Cool so we'll leave the multimeter and other things to those who have engineering degrees. The rest of us can settle for swapping out the power supply / motherboard. Sorted. |
Chilling_Silence (9) | ||
| 1307152 | 2012-10-16 23:16:00 | Cool so we'll leave the multimeter and other things to those who have engineering degrees. We give the meter to techs. They learn by using the meter. Also learn why failures happen. And how to avert a failure before it might happen. Two choices exist. Get numbers to have a solution using less money and labor. And learn. Or shotgun. Keep replacing good parts until something works. And learn nothing from the experience. Those were always the two choices. Even auto mechanics who do shotgunning can find themselves quickly unemployeed. JMoore asked "Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated!" Provided is the other solution. Start by ignoring many naysayers who offer no solutions. Who really do not understand the underlying concepts. Who only suggest "it might be this or try that". One minute with a multimeter, a simple procedure, and numbers from six wires is the other and more often successful solution. And the only solution that also provides knowledge from the experience. |
westom (16792) | ||
| 1307153 | 2012-10-16 23:32:00 | Wouldnt any "ripple' be at the switching frequency & therefore in no way measurable with std Multimeters ? Standard Multimeters arnt really usefull for checking for noise & spikes on the rails . Thats what scopes are for . The easiest/quickest test for a PSU is to swap it for a good one . That is real world PC repair . Complete waste of time trying to fault test a PSU, unless you intend to pull it apart & repair it . Also a very high possibilty that its a motherboard fault , not the PSU at all . Some old faulty motherboards simply wont POST (turn on) after being turned off (power cut), nothing to do with PSU's Look for bulging,leaking caps . Pull the ram out & reseat it . Reseat the vid car (if applicable) Disconnect all cables such as IDE/SATA/USB etc When you turn the PC on, do any of the keyboard lights flash ?? does the numlock button work(LED will go on & off) |
1101 (13337) | ||
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