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Thread ID: 125415	2012-06-26 22:37:00	More Racism and Separatism:	B.M. (505)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1284182	2012-07-01 02:20:00	While I think most would echo those sentiments, regardless of if you're a National or Labour supporter, perhaps a letter to your local MP may be more productive? Ahhhhhh, I’m afraid not Chill. You see my local MP is Simon Bridges who himself carries a drop or two of Maori blood and is firmly aligned with the Grievance Industry and the Treaty Gravy Train. Never mind, was a thought. :thumbs:	B.M. (505)
1284183	2012-07-01 02:26:00	... Firstly, over 1 million eligible voters (26%), like myself, didn’t vote. HERE (www.nzherald.co.nz) Why? Because as I’ve said before It was like voting for which form of Cancer you’d prefer to die from. In short, the standard of Political Party & Politician was so poor we couldn’t bring ourselves to support any. ... +1	bk T (215)
1284184	2012-07-01 05:33:00	Only because you attributed something to me that was completely untrue which you often do the way you run around calling everyone a racist just because they don't choose to follow your reasoning so you need to learn how to debate issues without letting your personal feelings intrude so much. When you talk about personal feelings intruding you should reread the words "total prat"and see where your well reasoned argument is. No reference I can see in this thread calling you a racist, so you're getting paranoid as well.	Twelvevolts (5457)
1284185	2012-07-01 05:56:00	While I think most would echo those sentiments, regardless of if you're a National or Labour supporter, perhaps a letter to your local MP may be more productive? The "race basis" you claim is only because the land stolen by the Government happened to be Maori land, the Courts upheld the claims against the Government so we're talking a legal obligation here. So surely that leaves us with the Government having legally to pay fair compensation for the land, that's what the current process is about. A letter to your MP is therefore completely pointless, although you could vote for a party in the future who will overthrow the rule of law. Question is why you care so much about the issue, there are those on this forum are always going on about Maori looking after their own interests, but when they do they are also apparently at fault. Where do these negative feelings about Maori come from? Seems Maori are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Was a programme this morning on Whale Watch and other Maori business groups on a marketing visit to China, doing a great job by the look of it in promoting this country. Maori culture is selling tourists on coming here but never hear anything positive about Maori from the likes of BM, seems on the surface that that is because there is another agenda.	Twelvevolts (5457)
1284186	2012-07-01 06:14:00	When you talk about personal feelings intruding you should reread the words "total prat"and see where your well reasoned argument is. No reference I can see in this thread calling you a racist, so you're getting paranoid as well. If you hadn't attributed something that was totally untrue about me that would never have come up so your argument there just doesn't stack up as usual and it wasn't about you calling me a racist but but then get incredibly upset when someone returns the favour and calls you Pakeha.	mikebartnz (21)
1284187	2012-07-03 08:39:00	If you hadn't attributed something that was totally untrue about me that would never have come up so your argument there just doesn't stack up as usual and it wasn't about you calling me a racist but I'd have replied earlier but the moderator did not provide me with the opportunity until now. No personal attack was intended, the "you" wasn't intended to mean you personally but I can see how it reads that way. I don't see why the comment warrants a 48 hour ban when your comment doesn't, but in the circumstances I'll apologise for the comment made and accept that that isn't your perspective.	Twelvevolts (5457)
1284188	2012-07-03 08:48:00	I'd have replied earlier but the moderator did not provide me with the opportunity until now. No personal attack was intended, the "you" wasn't intended to mean you personally but I can see how it reads that way. I don't see why the comment warrants a 48 hour ban when your comment doesn't, but in the circumstances I'll apologise for the comment made and accept that that isn't your perspective. Apologies accepted.	mikebartnz (21)
1284189	2012-07-03 11:45:00	The "race basis" you claim is only because the land stolen by the Government happened to be Maori land, the Courts upheld the claims against the Government so we're talking a legal obligation here . So surely that leaves us with the Government having legally to pay fair compensation for the land, that's what the current process is about . A letter to your MP is therefore completely pointless, although you could vote for a party in the future who will overthrow the rule of law . Question is why you care so much about the issue, there are those on this forum are always going on about Maori looking after their own interests, but when they do they are also apparently at fault . Where do these negative feelings about Maori come from? Seems Maori are damned if they do and damned if they don't . Was a programme this morning on Whale Watch and other Maori business groups on a marketing visit to China, doing a great job by the look of it in promoting this country . Maori culture is selling tourists on coming here but never hear anything positive about Maori from the likes of BM, seems on the surface that that is because there is another agenda . I understand what you are saying 12v and even agree with you somewhat, but here is the real problem . 1) Compensation for Maori land is a given, yes, it needs to be sorted out . But the system is being abused by some who are claiming beaches, water, air, fish, trees etc etc . And much of what is returned or compensated for, is of little to no benefit to the country unless it is already developed and bringing in an income . Some of the land returned is now just waste land and providing nothing for anyone . The whole issue is not driven by fair compensation, it is driven by greed . 2) Any income made by Maori is only going to Maori (apart from what the Govt collects in taxes) . What would happen if any money made by non-Maori only went to non-Maori? There would be a hell of a stink about it . It seems any money made by New Zealanders goes to all New Zealanders (including Maori) and yet any money Maori make just goes to Maori . Maori have been given billions of dollars either in cash or assets, yet have contributed very little back into the country, millions have been wasted in failed investments, poor management etc and the whole country is suffering as a result of that money no longer in the economy . Its not giving Maori peole better standards, its giving the whole country worse standards . Many older generation who have been around a while and can see the trend here, they dont like where the country is heading, its not a better place, it is worse off and they are worse off . We are all worse off as a country - all of us . While some of it has to do while Govt policy and the world economy a fair bit of it also has to do with Maori greed and their contribution to making NZ a better place for all - and all that is contributing to the negative feelings against Maori . You talk about Maori business groups promoting the country, the reality is, they are promoting Maoridom not New Zealand . Maori culture is selling tourists agreed, but not all tourists and I would say not even a majority of tourists . An example: The Tamaki's (who I think have a Maori tourist village in Rotorua) also set up a Maori village in Chch, the council gave them land, they spent 10's of thousands of dollars building it all . When I saw it going up, I said to a person I was with "I dont think they have done their homework, while Maori might be an attraction in the North, it doesnt have the same following in the South" . It started off with a hiss and a roar, those who went on the experience said it was a great show and really well done . It was $90 for the evening for locals and from memory about $150 USD for tourists, within about 3 months they were quietly scaling down, they didnt get many locals, they didnt get the tourists traveling through and they wernt getting the cruise ship tourists they hoped to be getting . It might have lasted about a year slowing going down hill until the experience was nothing but a hungi (cooked in gas ovens out the back), now, sadly there is nothing . It is a shame, because it was something different for Chch and they went to a lot of effort to put on an excellent performance, but its not what everyone comes to NZ for .	Iantech (16386)
1284190	2012-07-03 12:01:00	An example: The Tamaki's (who I think have a Maori tourist village in Rotorua) also set up a Maori village in Chch, the council gave them land, they spent 10's of thousands of dollars building it all. When I saw it going up, I said to a person I was with "I dont think they have done their homework, while Maori might be an attraction in the North, it doesnt have the same following in the South". It started off with a hiss and a roar, those who went on the experience said it was a great show and really well done. It was $90 for the evening for locals and from memory about $150 USD for tourists, within about 3 months they were quietly scaling down, they didnt get many locals, they didnt get the tourists traveling through and they wernt getting the cruise ship tourists they hoped to be getting. It might have lasted about a year slowing going down hill until the experience was nothing but a hungi (cooked in gas ovens out the back), now, sadly there is nothing. It is a shame, because it was something different for Chch and they went to a lot of effort to put on an excellent performance, but its not what everyone comes to NZ for. Have a very similar situation in South Masterton on a smaller scale but I don't think anything has ever happened there as far as tourists go. Was set up years ago.	mikebartnz (21)
1284191	2012-07-03 12:23:00	I understand what you are saying 12v and even agree with you somewhat, but here is the real problem. 1) Compensation for Maori land is a given, yes, it needs to be sorted out. But the system is being abused by some who are claiming beaches, water, air, fish, trees etc etc. And much of what is returned or compensated for, is of little to no benefit to the country unless it is already developed and bringing in an income. Some of the land returned is now just waste land and providing nothing for anyone. The whole issue is not driven by fair compensation, it is driven by greed. 2) Any income made by Maori is only going to Maori (apart from what the Govt collects in taxes). What would happen if any money made by non-Maori only went to non-Maori? There would be a hell of a stink about it. It seems any money made by New Zealanders goes to all New Zealanders (including Maori) and yet any money Maori make just goes to Maori. Maori have been given billions of dollars either in cash or assets, yet have contributed very little back into the country, millions have been wasted in failed investments, poor management etc and the whole country is suffering as a result of that money no longer in the economy. Its not giving Maori peole better standards, its giving the whole country worse standards. Many older generation who have been around a while and can see the trend here, they dont like where the country is heading, its not a better place, it is worse off and they are worse off. We are all worse off as a country - all of us. While some of it has to do while Govt policy and the world economy a fair bit of it also has to do with Maori greed and their contribution to making NZ a better place for all - and all that is contributing to the negative feelings against Maori. You talk about Maori business groups promoting the country, the reality is, they are promoting Maoridom not New Zealand. Maori culture is selling tourists agreed, but not all tourists and I would say not even a majority of tourists. An example: The Tamaki's (who I think have a Maori tourist village in Rotorua) also set up a Maori village in Chch, the council gave them land, they spent 10's of thousands of dollars building it all. When I saw it going up, I said to a person I was with "I dont think they have done their homework, while Maori might be an attraction in the North, it doesnt have the same following in the South". It started off with a hiss and a roar, those who went on the experience said it was a great show and really well done. It was $90 for the evening for locals and from memory about $150 USD for tourists, within about 3 months they were quietly scaling down, they didnt get many locals, they didnt get the tourists traveling through and they wernt getting the cruise ship tourists they hoped to be getting. It might have lasted about a year slowing going down hill until the experience was nothing but a hungi (cooked in gas ovens out the back), now, sadly there is nothing. It is a shame, because it was something different for Chch and they went to a lot of effort to put on an excellent performance, but its not what everyone comes to NZ for. I always thought people could do what they wanted with their own money and land - if someone wants to turn a golf course into scrub then if it is their land they can do what they want. Of course the likes of Whale Watch make money for themselves - it's called business. They also make money for the country because tourists spend money while they're here. Again though the double standard - let the land turn to scrub and you are wasting money, make a buck off it and you're greedy. I imagine I'll be banned again for this post.	Twelvevolts (5457)
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