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Thread ID: 125415	2012-06-26 22:37:00	More Racism and Separatism:	B.M. (505)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1284132	2012-06-28 09:26:00	crying foul when you didn't use your power of vote is too bad. +1 for that, and my god isnt there alot of crying...like a blinkin' stuck record.	globe (11482)
1284133	2012-06-28 11:00:00	Do you honestly believe without the pakeha, Maoris would still be running around in grass skirts?Yes, take a look at Native New Guinea (not Papua NG) which have seen very little western interference or some of the tribes deep in the Amazon. Without European or any other people coming to NZ, Maori would still be in the stone age, they wouldnt have known anything different. In the time they claim to have been in NZ, they hadnt even invented bows and arrows (which were used about 15,000 years ago), so the chance of them ever actually developing into a civilised society is practically nill mostly due to isolation (and low mental ability). What would have changed? By now they would have spread out accross the whole country, they would have killed and eaten the last of all New Zealands bird life and mammals, the stronger tribes would have over-run the weaker ones, raping the women and killing the remaining men and boys and eating them. There would still be tribal warring, throwing sticks and stones at each other, oh, and lets not forget running around in grass skirts, poking their tongues out and doing the haka during and after births, deaths, marrages, catching fish, raping women, killing a rat, taking a crap, catching a fish etc etc (which I bet they didnt actually do).	Iantech (16386)
1284134	2012-06-28 20:06:00	We only have to observe what happens in South Auckland and other bad areas at the present to work out what would have happened in the past.	prefect (6291)
1284135	2012-06-28 21:41:00	Yes, take a look at Native New Guinea (not Papua NG) which have seen very little western interference or some of the tribes deep in the Amazon. Without European or any other people coming to NZ, Maori would still be in the stone age, they wouldnt have known anything different. In the time they claim to have been in NZ, they hadnt even invented bows and arrows (which were used about 15,000 years ago), so the chance of them ever actually developing into a civilised society is practically nill mostly due to isolation (and low mental ability). What would have changed? By now they would have spread out accross the whole country, they would have killed and eaten the last of all New Zealands bird life and mammals, the stronger tribes would have over-run the weaker ones, raping the women and killing the remaining men and boys and eating them. There would still be tribal warring, throwing sticks and stones at each other, oh, and lets not forget running around in grass skirts, poking their tongues out and doing the haka during and after births, deaths, marrages, catching fish, raping women, killing a rat, taking a crap, catching a fish etc etc (which I bet they didnt actually do). Also add to that if anyone else other than the British had colonized NZ the Maoris would still be living in grass huts a bit like the rest of the pacific island still do..	paulw (1826)
1284136	2012-06-29 02:45:00	Also add to that if anyone else other than the British had colonized NZ the Maoris would still be living in grass huts a bit like the rest of the pacific island still do.. All I can say is the moaris are blardy lucky it was the englanders than colonized them instead of the frogs or krauts.	prefect (6291)
1284137	2012-06-29 03:48:00	All I can say is the moaris are blardy lucky it was the englanders than colonized them instead of the frogs or krauts.Or Japs !! (although its getting that way anyway in places)	Iantech (16386)
1284138	2012-06-29 08:46:00	Ref: Iantech.. - Why many maori from north are generally lighter than say east coast/Rotorua. Must be more than than natural concubine integration from British settlers. Parihaka might come to mind - but down south. - Low mental ability? can you clarify that... How - You think they drifted to NZ without some foresight of navigation? Made some fine traps, natural medicines, flute instruments, tattoos (- all of which have been somewhat replicated/adapted/perhaps admired today by niche companies and non maori - British Robbie Williams? Some adaptations of artworks I saw in Irish flea markets of locals selling them. - Some advanced industrialized countries with the best minds committed the worst atrocities ever, that are etched in history forever. I think even Britain according to this BBC article. (www.bbc.co.uk) - Bows and Arrows kind of reminds of how american natives must have been ridiculed...Cowboys and Indians...Another underclass? - Separate marriage or birth certificates for Maori until 1961. Separate unwarranted class of people? Not racism? - Yes grass skirts bandwagon - use to hear that in middle class primary school days. Cheeky kids (often recent British immigrants) poked tongues at the few maori kids. So the tongue poking survived, sometimes as sheer humiliation. Never goes away that one. - Did not other cultures up north, burn forests, strip gum, slaughter whales and seals, without much to show today? Fact it's barren in some areas. Well the Kumara got cultivated up North... fortunately survived for many to enjoy. - You are right about your stone age to present day....Another one that never goes away. I guess some cultures, races, ethnic groups, etc are fortuitously more inherently superior or advanced than others.	kahawai chaser (3545)
1284139	2012-06-29 13:11:00	When you vote for a pack of unprincipled politicos, you get exactly what you voted for.	nerd89 (14761)
1284140	2012-06-29 14:39:00	I think the difference between Maori in appearence is as different as in any race. While there is no proof, some say the major differences in Maori is because they bred with the people that were here when they themselves arrived. Back in the early days of European settlers, some reported there were Maori on the East coast of the North Island with red hair (I suspect more 'ginger' than red), and that in some local tribes, the Maori people had a longer, slender nose and thinner lips (more European features than pacific island). Where did these differences come from? Was it natural breeding or was it because of some breeding with another race? More DNA testing would be required to confirm anything conclusive. Low Mental Ability - The low ability to learn knowledge - that does not mean they didnt learn anything, of course they did. But when the first European arrived, Maori were still in the stone age and without outside interference, I doubt they would have evolved to much further in 200 yrs or so. Even during European stone age (5000 ~ 10,000 yrs ago roughly), they still had navigation (stars), hunted, fished, had tatoos etc etc. Sure there is a following of Maori art and culture, there is also a big following of Celtic art and culture, American Indian and probably many others, all as unique and as fascinating as each other. Bows and Arrows have been around a very long time, only recently (since Europeans arrived in Northern America) have they been associated with 'cowboys and indians' (too many buffalo bill, daniel boone and davy crocket books :) ). The earliest potential arrow heads date from about 64,000 years ago in the South African Sibudu Cave. By 16,000 BCE flint points were being bound by sinews to split shafts. Fletching was being practiced, with feathers glued and bound to shafts. The first actual bow fragments are the Stellmoor bows from northern Germany.They were dated to about 8,000 BCE but were destroyed in Hamburg during the Second World War. They were destroyed before carbon 14 dating was invented and their age is attributed by archaeological association. The oldest bow in one piece, are the elm Holmegaard bows from Denmark which were dated to 9,000 BCE. High performance wooden bows are currently made following the Holmegaard design. Around 3,300 BCE "Ötzi the Iceman" was shot through the lung near the present-day border between Austria and Italy and was mummified. Among his preserved possessions were bone and flint tipped arrows and an unfinished yew longbow 1.82 m (72 in) tall.His arrows had spiral feathers, which spun the arrow in flight and tend to give a straight flight despite any small asymmetry. Not sure what you are meaning about seperate birth/marriage certs etc for Maori, doesnt everyone have a seperate birth/marriage cert? Maori did use Kauri Gum and had many uses for it, fresh gum was used as a type of chewing gum (cant imagine it would taste all that good), it was also highly flammable and used as a fire-starter, or bound in flax to act as a torch. They also burnt and mixed it with animal fat making a dark pigment for tattooing apparantly. It was also made into jewellery, etc. I dont know how much they actually 'dug' for it, maybe scratched around just under the surface for it, but not the full-scale rooting up of the place that the European did. I think there would be a lot more of it around today if it was a big trading comodity such as greenstone. Maori would have burnt and cut down forest/scrub, but only to increase settlement/farming areas or for building etc, there would also have been a lot of natural fires - Southern Maori say in early times they could see the glow of fires in the skies at night for weeks/months and say it was the burning of the bushlands that were once in Central Otago, not sure how true it is, there used to be bush in Otago and there are still small pockets of it and in some remote areas high in the mountains you can see the remains of old tree stumps. How long ago it actually disappeared or how, who knows. I'm sure natural fires were common in the rest of the country as well. I doubt what the Maori cut down/cleared would have actually made a great difference (maybe over time it may have), but I think our forests only really started getting decimated since European arrival when saw-milling came along etc. Some say as we are such a young country we have no history, but we have a really interesting history when you get into it of both the Maori and Early European people and how the country and people developed. And yes, European have done alot of damage to the country in the past (sealing, whaling, flax cutting, coal mining, saw milling, gold mining, etc etc) and the human race will continue to damage it in the future as well - they call it 'progress' . I still think there is an earlier history than what we currently know (or are being made aware of) in NZ.	Iantech (16386)
1284141	2012-06-29 20:45:00	When you vote for a pack of unprincipled politicos, you get exactly what you voted for. Exactly, but some on here think you should support these cretins by voting for them or loose your right to complain about them. I liken the present Political Party’s to the Gangs. You know the Mongrel Mob, Black Power, Filthy Few, Hells Angels and so on. (You choose the individual association). I don’t support any of them, but one or two on this forum argue that I should therefore loose my right to criticise them. However, I draw comfort from the fact that over Million others examined the Party’s manifestos and decided to stay home because they couldn’t support any. So I guess the onus therefore lies with those who voted. :D	B.M. (505)
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