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Thread ID: 125441 2012-06-28 22:12:00 A Hot Time In Washington DC Today --------------- SurferJoe46 (51) PC World Chat
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1284558 2012-07-02 03:26:00 BTW Joe, I read recently (not an "official" outlet, but may be worth checking up on) that the ACA states that military & VA members with existing healthcare are exempt from paying the tax penalty. The penalty applies only if you opt out of having insurance at all & it comes about as the inability to claim a tax credit if you do have insurance. One of the more important provisions is that insurance companies are forced to use 85% of the premiums to actually provide healthcare, a clause that has already forced a number of insurers to provide premium rebates. This will hopefully stop the spiralling costs that plague the current model. MushHead (10626)
1284559 2012-07-02 04:28:00 That would be true if I had Medicare Part B, but with Medicare Part A only, I'd have to opt in to Medicare B to get the exemption.

Since I was fully matriculated into the VA/VISTA program when I first signed into the SS Medicare Part A, they told me that if I ever went to Part B, I could not use the VA facilities.

Catch 22. 		SurferJoe46 (51)
1284560 2012-07-02 10:46:00 I think there's a lot of misinformation floating around. Check out this analysis (mediamatters.org) of what some of the media (*cough* Fox News *cough*) are doing to stir up the "controversy". I'd be really interested how this will actually affect you once the dust settles... MushHead (10626)
1284561 2012-07-02 14:42:00 The Part A - Part B situation has always been the situation for my VA useability factor(s). I joined the US Navy and had included in my shipping orders that I and my wife would be in the system regulated and served by the VA until death of each of us.

'To The Grave' policies are rare, but in 1968, getting warm bodies INTO the military was getting tougher and tougher and since I had a 1-Y deferment with Selective Service, I was exempt of military service even through the draft.

What happened was 'sweetening the pot' for me and a whole lot of other guys during this last push to get some more boots on the ground in VietNam. The fact that I joined the Navy wasn't a bother as they could just move a squid to a grunt position, and actually my dad's 20+ years in the navy, got a little arm twisting in my behalf anyway.

I'm one of maybe 10,000 or so guys who got this particular package deal with the VA, but I was told that I could not invoke Part B or I'd lose my VA beni and only have Social Security from that time on. It's a one-time offer for those of us in this odd situation and could very easily be voided in a pen swipe.

I believe this Sweet Deal was deleted after New Year, 1969 for future inductees. I've only met a couple of guys with this same package at the VA. 		SurferJoe46 (51)
1284562 2012-07-02 21:24:00 You do know, SJ, that the vast majority of people in NZ and in the UK really love their tax-funded healthcare?

This Republican alarm about the sky falling in? It happened when non-landowners were given the vote, when slavery was abolished, when women were given rights,...

So just accept the court's decision it and enjoy your rutabagas :) 		BBCmicro (15761)
1284563 2012-07-02 21:34:00 Yeah. If Obama really had balls he could have tried to implement something the taxpayer-funded free healthcare practised by, well, just about every other First World country. Given the trouble he's having just trying to implement policies that the Republicans themselves have been instrumental in drafting, that would have obviously been a bridge too far. At least something's going to change - the existing system over there seems pretty broken (www.farleftside.com). MushHead (10626)
1284564 2012-07-02 22:20:00 Broken? Yeah. Badly.

It's the non-citizens who are abusing the system. The costs for them are somewhat 30-40 times higher than the US citizens consume in the US.

Since the confused tourists are using an ER as their regular doctor for headaches, flu and natal services, there aren't any docs available for those who pay into the system.

This won't change and in fact will get worse with the Dream Act in effect where the kids of illegal - er, tourists, are given a free college education at the cost to the paying citizens, a dormitory room, food and all living expenses so they can get an education.

No citizen gets a free ride - student loans have to be paid back and are extracted from their wages until the commitment is paid off in full ---- compound monthly plus interest. Most college grads owe over $200,000.00 when the graduate. Plus interest. Monthly. Compounded.

Then the fact that the new health insurance, besides being mandatory, is collected by the blood sucking IRS leeches. 		SurferJoe46 (51)
1284565 2012-07-02 22:25:00 the existing system over there seems pretty broken (www.farleftside.com).

Good link that. I got this from it:

"Discussing the Supreme Court's opinion upholding health care reform legislation, Fox White House correspondent Wendell Goler reported today that a fee for individuals who don't have health insurance would only affect one percent of the population. Goler's report is in marked contrast to his Fox News colleagues, who are claiming the fee is a massive tax on all Americans.

For instance, Fox News contributor Monica Crowley said that the ruling will lead to "one of the biggest tax increases in American history and a highly regressive tax that is going to hit the poor and the middle class," and Fox & Friends co-host Steve Doocy claimed it creates a tax that is "going to hit everybody." Likewise, Fox host Sean Hannity claimed that it is "a tax on every single American" and "the largest tax increase in American history," and Fox News Radio's Todd Starnes said it "will force a massive new tax on the American people."

In fact, Goler's reporting is backed up by the facts... A March 2012 report by the nonpartisan Urban Institute found that 94 percent of Americans "would not face a requirement to newly purchase insurance or pay a fine." 		BBCmicro (15761)
1284566 2012-07-02 23:57:00 Good link that. I got this from it:

"Discussing the Supreme Court's opinion upholding health care reform legislation, Fox White House correspondent Wendell Goler reported today that a fee for individuals who don't have health insurance would only affect one percent of the population. Goler's report is in marked contrast to his Fox News colleagues, who are claiming the fee is a massive tax on all Americans.

For instance, Fox News contributor Monica Crowley said that the ruling will lead to "one of the biggest tax increases in American history and a highly regressive tax that is going to hit the poor and the middle class," and Fox & Friends co-host Steve Doocy claimed it creates a tax that is "going to hit everybody." Likewise, Fox host Sean Hannity claimed that it is "a tax on every single American" and "the largest tax increase in American history," and Fox News Radio's Todd Starnes said it "will force a massive new tax on the American people."

In fact, Goler's reporting is backed up by the facts... A March 2012 report by the nonpartisan Urban Institute found that 94 percent of Americans "would not face a requirement to newly purchase insurance or pay a fine."

Something's wrong with those numbers - besides the reporting is somewhat slanted, if not totally skewed.

I know very well over 100 people from California, and I can say that about ten of them have any form of insurance. Of the new friends I have here in Montana, I can say that about half or less of them have no insurance.

This area of Montana is particularly affluent, so that may be the difference.

Insurance right now today before it escalates for the new IRS mandatory requirements which is already happening - for my wife it will cost about $800.00 a month plus co-pay for medical prescriptions of 30% of the total, and the insurance she can get for that premium will pay $100/day for any hospitalization.

Since a hospital room costs over $1200/day plus, I don't see how she can get the coverage that this new Federally required medical insurance promises to provide.

If you actually see a doctor or have a CAT scan outside of the Emergency Room Theater - that's not part of the insurance coverage EG: 100% hospitalization.

From The Wall Street Journal, an Obama puppet paper, the facts are in print:::


(The) Wall Street Journal’s senior economics writer Stephen Moore said that nearly 75 percent of Obamacare costs will saddle those Americans making less than $120,000 annually. That would be the middle class. “It’s a big punch in the stomach to middle class families,” Moore said.

“Back in 2008 Barack Obama told supporters health care should never be purchased ‘with tax increases on middle class families,’” said Moore.

“By 2016, the fine (for those not buying health insurance) could be over $2,000 a year,” Moore said. In fact, the tax for not buying health insurance for an adult will be $695 in 2016. For families not buying health coverage, the tax will be a modest $285 in 2014. However, by 2016, those choosing to “freeload” on the system will be taxed $2,085.

If this is not a 'fee', then it's the single largest tax increase in history.

From a Republican-leaning newspaper now- pretty much the same story:::


“Independent of the constitutional issues, the health care law is utterly unaffordable—costing $2.6 trillion over the first full ten-year window,” Sessions said in a statement on the Obamacare ruling. “This massive new entitlement program adds $17 trillion in unfunded long-term obligations—more than twice the unfunded obligations of Social Security.”

Although the Supreme Court ruled that the Commerce Clause cannot be used to compel Americans to purchase products, Sessions is still worried that the ruling today upholding the mandate as a tax expands government power.

“The question has to be asked to what extent all government mandates and demands can just be referred to as a tax, thus unleashing the power of the central government to dictate individual Americans’ private, everyday decisions,” he said.

From Business Insider (a Wall Street Paper) :::


Many people are still unsure what the coming health insurance tax will cost them.
Business Insider's Henry Blodget detailed the costs earlier today... specifically in regards to what the "penalty" is if you don't buy insurance (as mandated).
How it's calculated (in 2016):

For those making less than $9,500 a year, they will pay nothing.
For those with incomes between $9,500 and $37,000, they will pay $695 per person (or as much as $2,100 for a family plan).
If you earn more than $37,000, you will pay 2.5 percent of your household income less $9,500.
If you earn more than $200,000 or there abouts, you will pay the "Bronze" health insurance plan fee established through your state exchange, which will top out at about $5,000 per person (or $12,500 per family).
There are a number of exemptions that will also impact your payment of the tax.
We thought we could simplify things for you by presenting your expected penalty in chart form (costs are calculated at a single-person's income).


So, basically, you're looking at penalties of approximately the following at the following income levels:
Less than $9,500 income = $0
$9,500 - $37,000 income = $695 (I am in this bracket at $17,904/year. I do not currently pay any income tax as I have no taxable income)
$50,000 income = $1,000
$75,000 income = $1,600
$100,000 income = $2,250
$125,000 income = $2,900
$150,000 income = $3,500
$175,000 income = $4,100
$200,000 income = $4,700
Over $200,000 = The cost of a "bronze" health-insurance plan


The IRS will collect the penalty-tax, a fact that will no doubt further enrage those who hate Obamacare. But here's some more good news for those folks:
The IRS will not have the power to charge you criminally or seize your assets if you refuse to pay. The IRS will only have the ability to sue you. And the most the IRS can collect from you if it wins the suit is 2X the amount you owe. So if you want to thumb your nose at the penalty-tax, the IRS won't be able to do as much to you as they could if you refused to pay, say, income tax.
By the way, the following folks will be exempt from the penalty-tax:
Those who make less than $9,500
Employees whose employers only offer plans that cost more than 8% of the employee's income
Those with "hardships"
Members of Indian tribes (WHY? They run huge gamboling casinos that are tax exempt already!)
Members of certain religions that don't pay Social Security tax, such as Amish, Hutterites, or Mennonites

And, of course, Obamacare isn't free. So, whether you pay the penalty or not, you're going to have to pay a lot of other taxes to pay for it in the form of increased taxes on State, County, Local and fee-based services by municipal services. (Fire. police, paramedic, highway toll fees and police fines.

These new 'fees' show up in various insidious ways:::

Right now, any medical expenses over $7,500 per year are deductible. Next year, that hurdle will be $10,000.

Currently, there is no tax-related limit on how much you can set aside pre-tax to pay for medical expenses.

Next year, there will be.

If you have been socking away, say, $10,000 in your FSA to pay medical bills, you'll have to cut that to $2,500.

Those whose employers pay for all or most of comprehensive healthcare plans (costing $10,200 for an individual or $27,500 for families) will have to pay a 40% tax on the amount their employer pays.

The 2018 start date is said to have been a gift to unions, which often have comprehensive plans.

Starting in 2013, medical device manufacturers will have to pay a 12.3% excise tax increase on medical equipment. This is expected to raise the cost of medical procedures.

What's NOT noted and is being left out of this discussion is the fact that the penalty a company will pay for not providing health insurance for their employees is less than buying the health insurance. Many many companies will decide to drop health insurance and pay the penalty which to them will be tax-deductible as an overhead operating expense.

Here's another kicker: if you are a US ex-pat, you still get the 'tax' taken out of your retirement fund. Those Americans living overseas as retirees, still get to pay to the US for others to have insurance even though there is no way they would be using any of it.

If one opts to pay the fine, you are still uninsured. You do NOT get a medical insurance payer's identification card, so you're still screwed but get to pay for it anyway.

Another hit to the nads:::

Then there's the issue of who pays for uncompensated care when an uninsured person stumbles into an ER with acute appendicitis is still there. By law, they have to get treatment for free until they are stable and can leave under their own volition and upright, walking or crawling at least.

The illegals depend on this medical clause in the Hospital Accreditation Licensing Clause.

If that's the case, why wouldn't the uninsured roll the dice and pay the penalty which is much cheaper than an insurance policy? 		SurferJoe46 (51)
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