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Thread ID: 23103	2002-08-07 07:50:00	mp3 downloads	Downtown_Brown (1336)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
69018	2002-08-07 22:49:00	> Hi D_B, > The "Artists' are bleeding because of volume of music > dowloaded free from the Internet?Wakey-Wakey! > > Sales in the Music Industry was down 6.6% from the > previous years turn-over of [b]$48 > BILLION[b]World-wide. but what of the huge gains in sales that were taking place every year until p2p took off? a drop in sales is a huge drop when you look at the fact that the number of sales had climbed year after year. > Long live P2P! so you condone illegal activity then? :) Mike.	Mike (15)
69019	2002-08-07 23:37:00	Hi Mike, you condone illegal activity then? What's illegal about downloading MP3's?or any other files that are not 'warez'? Was just rattling the cage!LOL,:-0 Cheers,Kiwitas,;-)	Kiwitas (514)
69020	2002-08-07 23:42:00	ok my quick $0.02 one thing i hate is people makeing money out of others work. in this case it people selling pirate cd's. if you are going to pay for it buy the real thing. this also goes for the likes of kazaa who are makeing money out of people file sharing mp3's. i don't have anything against people SHARING music, all of us have shared music or other items at one time or another. gee i wonder if stanly will start sueing people for shareing a screwdriver. "you only bought the right for you to use that screwdriver personally" yea right! if you what good quality music, the cd sleeves and any extras that come with the cds then you need to buy it. (remember pink floyd pulse album?) the music industrys biggest probblem is illegal SELLING of cds not shareing. btw before the days of cd's does anyone still remember shareing tapes? i don't remember music industry kicking up a fuss about that.	tweak'e (174)
69021	2002-08-07 23:45:00	OK, last reply before we start giong round in circles. The difference between 12 individual songs and 12 songs off an album is that you cannot buy the album with the 12 individual songs onthem without a bunch of other [crap?] songs as well. Those that download and make available entire albums do it to either a) make money (not the case with p2p granted), or b) to rip of the labels in the same way that software crackers/pirates do. Just because they can. >Nobody does it to fight huge "anti-competitive" corporates. >They do it to get free music. Of course. They rationalise this action with the age-old "They can afford it because they're big". They don't do to fight the company, but rationalise their actions with that idea. As far as the big corporation argument. I agree with you that MS got big through hard work and determination. My argument above does not show this, but I have fairly capitalist views, and just decided to take the other side in this debate (hence why some of my arguments are a little weak - I still think they are valid though). I agree that MS etc deserve what they earn, and I was NEVER comparing Bill Gates money with MS's. But, don't you think that ny nature large companies are anti-competitive. This is a hard argument to reason as the general reply is usully - "That's not their fault, they didn't do it on purpose." But my beleif is that averyone should have a fair chance, which does not happen when one company dominates the market. This conflicts with my capitalist view, and to legislate around this problem would be a nightmare, but it is just my beleif that large corporations are relatively immune to most competition by virtue of their size. I know the details of the anti-trust cases. My argument was based on inference of the facts, and by examining the courts possible solutions (eg when they discussed breaking MS up into several separate companies in order to halt what it was doing). I was just explaining that MS had used bulkly tactics to stamp out competition on the sidelines (separate from the anti-trust issue) through buy-outs, propaganda (linux is a virus), and a little bit of its own piracy. You may be right about piracy continuing even if prices do come down, but I disagree. I still buy the same amount of music as I did before I discovered p2p. This is as much s I can afford (usually 2-3 cd's a year),. But I also have enjoyment from a much bigger collection due to p2p. If the price of music was halved, I would double my consumption. Piracy will never be stamped out entirely - neither will any criome, but it will at least be reduced. What needs to happen is society needs to really change its attitude to discopurage piracy. No matter what anyone says, society is relaxed about this theft. People get all high and mighty about how illegal it is when asked, but then go home and do it themselves. For most pirates, it is the only illegal activity they have or will ever do. They just do not feel that it is criminal. Societies attitude needs to change before the people will. Finally: >They have the major market share (like Microsoft) and >in most places people sign up with Telecom because >that's generally what people do. Nothing anti-competitive >about that. If you are big because at one stage you were the only option (both MS and Telecom fall under this category), then you gain market share by default. You need to work to keep it, but once you are big, you have the resources to. You can afford to out advertise everyone else. No-one has a chance unless they are big enough to compete. Again, they are anti-competitive by virtue of their size. People sign up to telecom because they don't know any better. They are ill-informed. There is still the attitude that Windows is the only OS, and telecom is the only teleco company in NZ - if you need a phone, ring telecom. They do not have the best product, and usually have the highest price, but because they can out advertise eberyone else, they gain customers. This is what I mean bu consumers being hurt. They end up with a less quality product (usually - I have no problem with MS office - it is a great sutie, but windows is a bloated cow of an OS - yes I still use it, but that is an informed decision based on my needs) for a higher price due to their ignorance of the market. Piracy is a sensitive issue. Everyone knows it is illegal. Everyone concedes that it is stealing and that it is hurting poeple. Yet everyone who does it rationalises these points and does it anyway. The media makes these people out to be dark and dirty criminals. They aren't. I can't see a solution. Consumers deserve a better deal, yet the record companies and artists do not deserve to by overly legislated against, and most certainly don't deserve to be stolen from. What needs to be done is that the govt needs to commission a study to determine the best solution for everyone. Passing a bill to allow record labels to breach your privacy by way of access to your PC is not the answer (damn US!). G P	Graham Petrie (449)
69022	2002-08-07 23:55:00	tweak'e - agree whole heartedly about the selling etc. But I would postulate that most people would be of the view that when you share a screwdriver, only one person is using it. You don't make copies of the screwdriver and give them away at no or little cost to yourself. It is not really sharing, but open distribution of copies. As far as the tapes go - of course no-one minded (although now the record companies say that it hurt them back then - rubbish!) It was not as easy or widespread then however. Still - it is the same principle. G P	Graham Petrie (449)
69023	2002-08-08 00:09:00	<snip snip snip> :) > The difference between 12 individual songs and 12 > songs off an album is that you cannot buy the album > with the 12 individual songs onthem without a bunch > of other [crap?] songs as well. Those that download Buy the single :) > they are big enough to compete. Again, they are > anti-competitive by virtue of their size. People LOL that comes down to definition I think :) I wouldn't call it anti-competitive, because legally "anti-competitive" is (put simply) acting to stamp out competition. I don't believe Microsoft or Telecom are in the practice of doing this - they're big, and therefore hard to compete with, but this doesn't make them anti-competitive :) > sign up to telecom because they don't know any > better. They are ill-informed. There is still the > attitude that Windows is the only OS, and telecom is > the only teleco company in NZ - if you need a phone, > ring telecom. They do not have the best product, Personally I think Microsoft do have the best product... for EVERYBODY. Doesn't mean its the best product for each person, but overall - it is designed to suit people in general, whereas alternatives such as Linux are designed to suit the individual... a lot of Win features are not there, you need to know what you're doing with Linux. Windows works whether you're a genius or an absolute idiot (like myself). > and usually have the highest price, but because they > can out advertise eberyone else, they gain I don't think Telecom or Microsoft need to even advertise - they're already well enough known. They could operate quite comfortably for a long time without advertising (wouldn't sell as much as if they did advertise though). > Consumers deserve a better deal, yet the record > companies and artists do not deserve to by overly > legislated against, and most certainly don't deserve > to be stolen from. What needs to be done is that so some do deserve to be stolen from? ;) Mike. <the extreme capitalist> :)	Mike (15)
69024	2002-08-08 00:36:00	in essence its what its all about. music is so easy to copy CHEAPLY. if they want to get around sharing of mp3 then they need to add something esle to the product eg special cases, pics, lyics etc. then theres live shows. add value to the cd's that cannot be copied. they need to change the product, then customers will buy cd's, not just for the cd but for the rest os the stuff that comes with it.	tweak'e (174)
69025	2002-08-08 00:54:00	Nit pickin' time: >The reason MS is in trouble is not because they are a huge company. They worked bloody hard to get there. Bullsh!t. Granted, a lot of people work hard a MS, especially the patch developers... You oughta read up on the true history of MS if you haven't already. Bill Gates never wrote an operating system, or invented anything. He was however a crafty business man. That's how he made his money. It's a known fact that the harder you work the less money you make. >>Not everyone gets pirated stuff because it is cheaper. But because they can "try before they buy". Who want's to spend ~$40 on a CD when they have never heard the artist. That's what radio stations are for. >>> but the fact that MS has the dominant market share just makes it harder for any competitor to break into the market. There's nothing wrong with that. No of course not. It only means that we are starved for choice as consumers. One of the biggest reasons that MS is dominant is because of its OEM scheme - retailers and manufacturers get a large volume discount if they preinstall windows. Look at the other options - BeOS, which is just as easy to use as windows, but stabler (yes I tried it and couldn't crash it) is dead because the company got pushed out by MS - it's all about marketing tactics. Let's face it - MS make a crap operating system. But they do have good marketing gurus and have the advantage by getting in first. If BeOS came out before windows, I would hazard a guess to say we would (most of us) be running that instead. Linux doesn't go down well with OEM manufacturers because of it's 'flexibility' - that is it has too many features and would cause headaches to the monkeys who have to preinstall the OS's onto PCs. OSX is out for obvious reasons... >>>>No, it'll continue to happen even if CDs dropped to $5 each. It's the convenience of downloading what you want when you want - you can delete the ones you don't like. You can't do that off a CD. No it won't, unless the speed and quality of MP3s improve dramatically. I admit to downloading a CD full of MP3s. The idea was to get an MP3 player for the car. You can now get 10 stck MP3 CD players. You can drive your car for 40 hours before you have to change the CD. This is what appeals to a lot of people. I have currently a 6 CD stacker in my car - I change the CDs on average once a week. With MP3, I would be changing them about once a year. But I digress, and this was going to be a short post. I was going to say that I have downloaded MP3s but have given up because all of them have faults - they sound bad, they get cut off, they have varying RMS values... I've gone back to buying better quality CDs from the Warewhare for 99cents each...	Elwin Way (229)
69026	2002-08-08 04:12:00	Good on you Elwin, At least if the 99c CD from the Warehouse is no good.you still have a jewel-case for the next time you burn one! Cheers,Kiwitas,;-)	Kiwitas (514)
69027	2002-08-08 05:44:00	> >The reason MS is in trouble is not because they are > a huge company. They worked bloody hard to get > there. > > Bullsh!t. Granted, a lot of people work hard a MS, > especially the patch developers... You oughta read up > on the true history of MS if you haven't already. > Bill Gates never wrote an operating system, or > invented anything. He was however a crafty business > man. That's how he made his money. It's a known fact > that the harder you work the less money you make. So you're telling me Bill and Paul just decided to start up a company, do nothing, and become the biggest software company in the world with little or no effort at all? I don't think so! Mike.	Mike (15)
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