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Thread ID: 127550	2012-10-30 04:52:00	Techsoup.net.nz	Paul.Cov (425)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1309676	2012-11-01 00:12:00	I only "have a go" so to speak for 1 reason ( and its the only reason) if anyone asks about a Microsoft office product, the subject gets changed and Open office is ALWAYS pushed down our throats as better, cheaper etc. Its not often that someone asks for alternatives. In cases like that, then sure open office, no worries at all. While its been mentioned before the alternatives are being offered, that not what was asked originally. I've had a few PM's relating to Open office, and I've always replied to contact yorick. If the person does thats up to them. Take another look at it, if someone went in to get a puncture fixed on their car and the garage starts going on, you need new wipers, the oil needs changing, it could also do with a new paint job (I think you get the drift) you'd tell them what to do with their suggestions. The original topic was asking about techsoup and cheap pricing --- NOT whats a alternative to MS products. Sorry that is not true for the first post I saw you attacking him. While Office got mentioned in the thread it wasn't the thread starters main consideration but you still got your knickers in a real twist. I will try to find that post so you can reread it. It is no longer in my subscribed threads. I found it here (pressf1.pcworld.co.nz)	mikebartnz (21)
1309677	2012-11-01 00:59:00	If you are referring to the fact I said some documents created in 2007 wont display correctly in open Off, at the time that was 100% correct, they still wont, but do in libre Office and kingsoft Office. Other than that I've no idea what you are talking about. I could, if I could be bothered bring up every post relating to MS office or a problem and any posts that were answered by yorick pushed Open Office each and every time. Open office wasn't mentioned at all in this thread till it was brought up in post 16 ( by you know who) and to quote yourself : I must admit I think he was a little over zealous on this occasion	wainuitech (129)
1309678	2012-11-01 03:38:00	If you are referring to the fact I said some documents created in 2007 wont display correctly in open Off, at the time that was 100% correct, they still wont, but do in libre Office and kingsoft Office. Other than that I've no idea what you are talking about. I could, if I could be bothered bring up every post relating to MS office or a problem and any posts that were answered by yorick pushed Open Office each and every time. Open office wasn't mentioned at all in this thread till it was brought up in post 16 ( by you know who) and to quote yourself : No it wasn't that at all. That wasn't the first post I was meaning but I can't be bothered finding it. Yorick's post #19 was perfectly innocuous consider #1 but you started to jump down his throat from then on. Do you not think you are just as bad as him the way you always have to attack him because considering the number of post he has made I can't help but think you are over exaggerating the whole thing.	mikebartnz (21)
1309679	2012-11-01 04:00:00	No not really - that post linked, I went back and re-read the complete thing. In that thread, there was the Op wanted either MS office or an alternative, there were some stipulations though. Preferred the ribbon, and wanted web apps built in - over the thread, several programs were suggested, questions asked and answered in a polite manner, and MS office was the only one that could do everything asked, any other office product couldn't. Looking back at the beginning of this thread -- There is nowhere mentioned about other office programs till #16. All that was asked originally was about Techsoup and their pricing and if it were legit, it was then explained why so cheap, then it went off on a tangent about open office from #16 onwards. Mark my words -- Someone in the future will ask about MS office /Pricing or when somethings available, or how do do a certain thing, and I wouldn't at all be surprised if open office again gets pushed when it wasn't even mentioned before hand. Dont get me wrong, Open Office and its variants has its place, but if an alternative to MS Office is not asked for why push it in the first place. As for the number of posts ?? Well I been here longer and try to answer if I can help if no one else has so far, no one knows everything. I dont just post on one particular product/subject. ;) If theres a Open Office question, as I mentioned before Yoricks the man, with a great deal of knowledge. As a side subject, I had a guy call me today, wanted to know when the full Office 2013 was available - couldn't say for certain - I did ask why Office 2013, and he said because hes got the trial and it integrates with all the Cloud computing documents his work has, no other office program will do that, as he had looked.	wainuitech (129)
1309680	2012-11-01 04:55:00	Dont get me wrong, Open Office and its variants has its place, but if an alternative to MS Office is not asked for why push it in the first place. Though some people might appreciate being told that there is a free alternative to MS Office, and may decide to use it. I gave up on MS Office a while ago, and so far have yet to find issue with LibreOffice I now use primarily. Of course it's not for everyone but I like it.	Agent_24 (57)
1309681	2012-11-01 05:09:00	I agree that Yorick makes a good point HOWEVER what happens when said charity, that is now using all this free software like Linux etc, needs support? Not many people around that could actually support such a setup and if they do they probably charge a lot more than someone who works on Microsoft software. Or can they call the software manufacturer for support? Doubt it! Unless they pay some sort of maintenance contract. At least if they go the MS way there will be no issues with support. And don't say that with the free software setup they won't need support because everything just works. I'd be the last person to say that ANY software doesn't need support, all software needs support. It's true that MS has better casual support in a community. It's an advantage that being a virtual monopoly gives you. At school people use MS almost exclusively although that is changing. So called "computing" courses at Polytechs and PTEs are almost exclusively MS based. MS spends a huge amount of effort and money to make sure that keeps happening. However to say there is no support is incorrect. There is plenty of corporate level support: Redhat, Novell, IBM and of course Canonical all offer Linux support for a price. Locally companies such as Enterprise IT, Open System Specialists, Catalyst IT, Datacom all offer enterprise support for Linux. For local small NFPs strapped for cash however, your local LUG (Linux Users Group) is a great place to get community support. Support is not an issue, knowing where to look is the issue.	Yorick (8120)
1309682	2012-11-01 05:37:00	Isn't that a little contradictory, the words in bold. ? You mention the Office and linux is free ( which it is) , yet according to your own words, you would normally charge a person for it . Yea well I agree I could have worded that better, I was trying to get to bed. :) I was in fact referring to MS so called charity Whats been mentioned a few posts back totally agree, the support for linux or open office is no where as easy. Just earlier this week I had a place call me asking if I could sort out their 2 failed linux servers, both the OS's had totally turned turtle, and nothing was working. I was honest and said while I could get their network back up quickly, it would only be a temp measure as I dont have enough knowledge to repair the linux servers. The guy said to me they had been trying for several hours to find anyone who could fix them, seems anyone who does have the knowledge charges like a wounded bull. They run solely from donations and charity and cant really afford the costs, and the other guy who did setup the servers turned all sour and refused to do any more work. So while Linux may be free, support is not usually. What breed of linux and where, I may be able to point you in a direction. Same can be said for MS support. Gen-I supports Linux and they charge the same as their windows support IIRC. Some do charge more I know but that is a factor of the support needed is considerably less. I just had a business acquaintance, not a Linux customer, who was quoted 20k for upgrade of their Small business server plus several hundred a month maintenance charges, this from a MS partner. I think it's a fact of the industry and I daresay you've had similar experiences with MS partners. This is where, getting back to the original start of this thread. Places like Techsoup offer cheaper software to places that qualify, the subject WAS NOT is there a alternative to MS products. All I was commenting on was that it is not as charitable as it is made out to be. There are a number of downsides that people should be aware of, and if MS truly wanted to be charitable they would supply the software gratis and with guaranteed upgrades for the same price.(I will admit that they may stuck between a rock and hard place with the SEC if they did this.) The point of my post was that they can afford to and even at cost it would be much less than what they're offering.	Yorick (8120)
1309683	2012-11-01 06:22:00	For local small NFPs strapped for cash however, your local LUG (Linux Users Group) is a great place to get community support. Support is not an issue, knowing where to look is the issue. In the bigger main centres perhaps but trust me I've looked for decent Linux support around here and unless you have the money to pay for the support forget it.	CYaBro (73)
1309684	2012-11-01 07:24:00	Yea well I agree I could have worded that better, I was trying to get to bed. :) I was in fact referring to MS so called charity Same can be said for MS support. Gen-I supports Linux and they charge the same as their windows support IIRC. Some do charge more I know but that is a factor of the support needed is considerably less. I just had a business acquaintance, not a Linux customer, who was quoted 20k for upgrade of their Small business server plus several hundred a month maintenance charges, this from a MS partner. I think it's a fact of the industry and I daresay you've had similar experiences with MS partners. Sleep . :dogeye: narrr who needs sleep harden up man LOL only being silly, that's a fair enough call :) The pricing mentioned to upgrade a server - wholly crap-- obviously don't know all the details, BUT its either a LOT of work required over several days and a complete new network install with major hardware changing/upgrades , but either way sounds like the place is over charging (and that's the polite version ) :D Charging several hundred a month sounds like a rip as well, if the hardware is quality, and things are setup properly ( what ever flavour it is) then "service calls" shouldn't really be needed every month.	wainuitech (129)
1309685	2012-11-01 07:50:00	Sleep . :dogeye: narrr who needs sleep harden up man LOL only being silly, that's a fair enough call :) The pricing mentioned to upgrade a server - wholly crap-- obviously don't know all the details, BUT its either a LOT of work required over several days and a complete new network install with major hardware changing/upgrades , but either way sounds like the place is over charging (and that's the polite version ) :D Charging several hundred a month sounds like a rip as well, if the hardware is quality, and things are setup properly ( what ever flavour it is) then "service calls" shouldn't really be needed every month. Exactly what I told her, They're an engineering place so windows is compulsory because of their CAD software and they have SBS 2003 which is perfectly adequate for the use case. All they needed was an additional hard drive and a little megabit switch to make their network run a bit smoother. Local computer shop could do that in a jiffy and sure as hell wouldn't cost 20k. This is a network with three workstations and a server, all IBM kit, I need say no more.	Yorick (8120)
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