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Thread ID: 128006	2012-11-27 20:39:00	Windows update problem	Richard Morriss (5154)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1315065	2012-11-27 22:37:00	I visit the MS forums often. Just the other day someone had 360 installed and trojans went straight through it lol. Yeah a good program alright :p The thing about Trojans is that they (still) go through most AV. Different trojans for different AV. I'd always recommend Antimalware in addition to an AV, for that reason, FWIW.	Zara Baxter (16260)
1315066	2012-11-27 22:38:00	Lab tests dont mean a lot , they cant copy real world usage -- Ask all the people who I've seen and many techs as well that do the same sort of work with corrupted and infected PC's due to Having Norton 360 or some other Norton products and they'll all tell you its rubbish and the computers run much better once its been removed. I've done many tests myself, and Norton is no where as good at detecting infections as some other AV's. As for the Registry Comment -- What was written is correct -- if 1101 had put change this that or some other reg key/settings, and anyone reading doesn't know what they are doing they can do more damage than good, and make the PC unbootable. So giving advise that the reg may be faulty is only a general guide line to the problem. Question: If you suggested something saying it "would" fix the problem and the person did it, and it turned their PC into a total mess - Would YOU be responsible enough to pay to have it fixed ? And you have proof or some knowledge that Norton is not the actual cause --- How did you come to that conclusion ? Here is my suggestion - well wainuitech , i wouldnt say that you are wrong , i personally agree with Zara Baxter , i think shes is saying the right thing norton 360 is an effective security program , but i think she would also say that no antivirus is Totally Perfect which means even sometimes malwarebytes , spybot ,est Nod 32 can not detected viruses because the prgram is not well made to tackle it or simply not being up to date with the latest virus defintions . I know people have had bad experiences with Nortons , and i used to have it , but not know . I have avast free edition which i find it to be effective similar to Norton . Also I would say I still believe avast like other antivirus software is not perfect but i think at atleast I have antivirus and good firewall , and i have my computer up to date with virus defintion ,security and software . I look to be in good condtion . So im here to support zara baxter , because i think she is a person who i can trust and i think she is helping people out here . So go Nortons .	Nhashon (16466)
1315067	2012-11-27 23:05:00	Sure. And if the asker wants to try turning Norton 360 off to check if updates work, it's certainly worth a go. Been there done that. DIDN"T work. First thing I did was turn Off Norton, But really even when turning it off by its own settings its not fully turned off (any person who has worked with Nortons for a while can tell you that). Simply turning it off made no difference at all. I suggested we uninstall it and see what happens, they said go for it, as soon as it was uninstalled things started working. Just looking at what the PC was doing (or not doing in this case) seen it countless times before, was 95% certain it was a corrupted Norton. Once Norton was removed in front of the customer, the exact words were -- Are you able to fix the computer ?-- And if so don't put back that ( polite version) Norton Software -- the real wording was F***ken Sh*t ( not to hard to guess ) ;) Guess that's where actual real world experience and seeing problems like this daily comes in. Anyone can read reports and come to conclusions, but actually doing something and having experience can often contradict what's written. NO antivirus is perfect, but when magazines push certain brands and claim its the best that's really false advertising. The general public believe whats written, and often end up paying for it, due to false claims. Andreas Marx method .......Because he does do testing as close to real-world as he can. AND theres the wording " as close to real-world" No One can actually create real world tests of the average user. If Norton is so good, then please explain as to why so many people have problems and removing it the problems suddenly disappear, and so many people still get infections. Its not just minor 1 or 2 but many ??? PS: that PC I'm Scanning with Nod32-- Now up to 27 Infections 9 of which are Trojans and several other nasties --- Real good software from the "best" :lol: Just seems that going by your comments, that all the techs world wide, people who fix computers, and thousands of people that have problems with Norton are all wrong, simply because some lab tests say its the best.:illogical	wainuitech (129)
1315068	2012-11-27 23:18:00	Been there done that. DIDN"T work. I wasn't suggesting it for you, but for the asker. Taking Norton's off is working for you - hence my "sure". Guess that's where actual real world experience and seeing problems like this daily comes in. If Norton is the problem, then that will come to light. For me, this really isn't about Norton, even though you seem to think it is. No matter what your AV, in this circumstance, running a full scan and antimalwarebytes antimalware, then trying to run Windows Update, check that there's no windows services corruption, etc, are all really simple and straighforward ways to try and address the problem. Suggesting someone remove their current AV, whatever it is, and *buy a new one*, as a first step? That's really not useful. I stand by that. You can scan with additional products without needing to remove your existing product. that's what housecall does, what antimalwarebytes antimalware does, etc. NO antivirus is perfect, but when magazines push certain brands and claim its the best that's really false advertising. The general public believe whats written, and often end up paying for it, due to false claims. I have never claimed, nor would I ever claim, or allow a magazine I published to claim, that any security was perfect. I have refused to publish tests when the methodology is faulty. It's in the nature of our business to recommend products. AND theres the wording " as close to real-world" No One can actually create real world tests of the average user. Each user is unique. Of course you can't. But as I say, he tqakes suggestions about improvements. By all means suggest them. If Norton is so good, then please explain as to why so many people have problems and removing it the problems suddenly disappear, and so many people still get infections. Its not just minor 1 or 2 but many ??? Market share and it's widespread use by people with little tech knowledge contributes, don't you think? Every AV has weak spots. Every single one. There's no such thing as 100% detection.	Zara Baxter (16260)
1315069	2012-11-27 23:25:00	ps: Wainuitech - I don't in any way mean to demean your experience. I'm sure you see those problems. The only issue I have is with removing the existing AV, whatever it is, and the purchase of a new product being recommended as a first step before other solutions are tried. That costs real people money, and it may be unneccesary, and that pisses me off. pps. I know you didn't check those links, because if you did, you would be having a good chuckle right now. ppps: I have several times successfully faced down lawsuits over my product recommendations when I used to test AV software, back before variants and worms became the norm and you needed vastly more expensive tech. AV companies are litigious, but I never let that stop me. I don't and never will take this stuff lightly.	Zara Baxter (16260)
1315070	2012-11-27 23:47:00	My suggestion about removing Norton, is based on actual experience . I NEVER had a customer complain after I removed Norton. Never..... Norton has caused more issues than ALL the other AV software combined, Im sure the other techs here would agree with that. When Norton is causing issues, disabling it wont remedy the issue. It has to be removed.(again, actual experience ) We used to sell Norton , many years ago. I wish it was still a good product. its simply isnt. Would you trust any Software company that cant be trusted with your credit card details ??(& got fined for this in the US)	1101 (13337)
1315071	2012-11-27 23:47:00	Before this goes to far, best clear up one thing: Suggesting someone remove their current AV, whatever it is, and *buy a new one*, as a first step? That's really not useful. I stand by that. You can scan with additional products without needing to remove your existing product. that's what housecall does, what antimalwarebytes antimalware does, etc. What I do is determine what has caused the problem. Sometimes its not Nortons, other times it is. "If" its Norton, then I will advise the customer as to what caused the problem, and give recommendations. I also advise that If Norton (or any other Security program for that matter) has caused the problem then putting it back on again will more than likely make the problem reoccur at some time and they'll be right back where they started ( this is from Experience with Norton and McAfee doing exactly that). I then give several suggestions as to what to install, either free or paid software. Along with Free antimalware programs, show them how to use it etc. Had it happen a few times where the customer wanted their Paid, but corrupted causing software put back - Then within a fortnight back again to remove it at their request because it did exactly what I said it may do ( re-corrupt). I don't automatically say you have to buy Product what ever, I give them a choice and its up to them as to what they want to do. As for this thread--- Theres one simple test that could be done... Remove Norton - see if the problem is fixed - if it is, then Norton was the cause, if Not then Norton can be reinstalled after the problem is resolved if so wished. Simple :D	wainuitech (129)
1315072	2012-11-27 23:49:00	As for this thread--- Theres one simple test that could be done... Remove Norton - see if the problem is fixed - if it is, then Norton was the cause, if Not then Norton can be reinstalled after the problem is resolved if so wished. Simple :D Yep! (Although, sometimes just turning it off to allow one faulty fix through is enough; if it's never had the problem before, it may be a just-this-once thing)	Zara Baxter (16260)
1315073	2012-11-27 23:50:00	Market share and it's widespread use by people with little tech knowledge Exactly! The fact is Nortons is pre installed on just about any computer the average 'people with little tech knowledge' buy to begin with They then face the problem of what to do when "subscription expired" pops up in 3 months (or whenever). Of course, a lot do the easiest thing - they pay the money!! and so perpetuates it's widespread use by people with little tech knowledge. Eset is much better at it's job, no doubt about it	bevy121 (117)
1315074	2012-11-28 00:07:00	Exactly! The fact is Nortons is pre installed on just about any computer the average 'people with little tech knowledge' buy to begin with They then face the problem of what to do when "subscription expired" pops up in 3 months (or whenever). Of course, a lot do the easiest thing - they pay the money!! and so perpetuates it's widespread use by people with little tech knowledge. Eset is much better at it's job, no doubt about it Yea, if Norton wasn't supplied on pretty much all new computers, as a 90 day trial, then I doubt many people would use it at all. Also the sales people at the toaster shops trying to push it when you buy a new computer doesn't help. :D Whenever we get a new machine for a customer, that has a Norton trial on it, we'll remove that and put on a 90-day trial of Eset instead. (if they haven't bought it already or asked for a free AV program)	CYaBro (73)
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