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Thread ID: 25058	2002-09-25 02:30:00	Qualification and you?	-=JM=- (16)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
82903	2002-09-25 21:54:00	Half right, Crunn... You're right, you can't be a heart surgeon without the bit of paper. But having the paper doesn't give you experience, it only says that you're qualified. It also doesn't mean that you're any good at it, which is basically what I thought Robo was saying. The bit of paper is probably needed to get you the job, but it doesn't mean you're any good at the job, or any better than someone without the bit of paper. It's INCREDIBLY hard to get an interview without a bit of paper, yet I know that half the jobs that I've gone for lately I'm probably more "qualified" to do the job than the people who've got it because they have a bit of paper to say they can do it. The paper just gets you the interview - after that it's pretty worthless. Mike.	Mike (15)
82904	2002-09-25 21:58:00	Yes, but all I am saying is that qualifications do not maketh the geek. A dentist can be qualified, but still be incompetent or invent a couple of fillings to help cashflow. The boss of a gambling foundation can still defraud the organisation he works for. The boss of the NZRFU can be a former rugby player and an MBA but still make a mistake or two. You have work ethic, attitude, morals, communication skills, personal hygiene, dress sense, timekeeping, dedication, tenacity, levelheadedness, creativity, and of course football club. robo.	robo (205)
82905	2002-09-25 22:00:00	A qualification got John Davy the job as head of Maori TV :) Mike.	Mike (15)
82906	2002-09-25 22:01:00	> However, you are not going to go to a surgeon for > your heart bypass unless he is qualified and that > qualification involves the piece of paper to prove > he has the experience. The qualification is the > experience proven by the piece of paper. So you wouldn't have your computer fixed by someone with any less that an MCSE, CNE, MCP, CCA or CTT? I think there are a whole lot of ways to get the relevant skills by work experience alone. Of course, you may have to start at the bottom on minimum wage and working in a not so pleasant working environment.. but I would think that the $$ savings would be a good incentive. I got my first "real" job with an IT distributor through WINZ. It was bottom of the food chain, spit on your face, work overtime DIRTY, but three and a half years (and two companies) later, I am in the same position as most people who were in my year graduating from Uni. They have a piece of paper and a student debt, I have 3 1/2 years hands on work experience. If we competing for the same job, it would be a close call. Of course, that isn't to say that qualifications are worthless. They are a nice way to back up your CV, but they shouldn't be relied on to get jobs. And, of course, at the end of the day, it is everyones own decision whether they do the hard yards in school or outside of school. MTCW P.S --> If you get a job and your boss likes what he sees, they may pay for your training anyway. Free MCSE anyone?	honeylaser (814)
82907	2002-09-25 22:04:00	> The qualification is the > experience proven by the piece of paper . But that is the problem, the piece of paper does not infer experience, and if you have the experience you don't always need the piece of paper . I have been in the position of employing several IT people, and I assure you attitude comes in at #1 . The "piece of paper" trails quite a way behind that . Many applicants honestly believed that the piece of paper entitled them to a position, which was a shame, they were in my opinion unemployable due to that belief . Many of the better ones were only at diploma level, but had a great attitude and ability, often over a wider field than the degree candidates . In my own field, there are only 7 people qualified to do what I do in NZ, and thats not specifically by any piece of paper but more by not having sat back and looked, but by being actively involved for some time (yes, hard work, not always paid) .	godfather (25)
82908	2002-09-25 22:46:00	I agree with Rob and Godfather (and all those who think alike). I see a lot of people who believe just because they have a piece of paper qualification they are entitled to higher position and pay... duh..... WRONG!!!!!! I am a tertiary qualified IT Professional, been in a managerial position for over 15 years straight (3 or 4 years as programmer before that). And it wasn't people I know who got me into my jobs, I always believe it was my confidence and ability to pick up new skills/technology. Can you imagine the pace of IT technology in the 80s??? That's why we are a special breed.	nzStan (440)
82909	2002-09-25 23:35:00	Just to make things interesting: I have a few 'qualifications' . I have lots of experience as a techie . The last job I applied for I left my CV at home and went to the interview with nothing but ID and my WINZ card . I got the job . Admittedly it was at an automotive dismantler, but it goes to show if you spread enough heiffer dust you can get anywhere . . .	SoniKalien (792)
82910	2002-09-25 23:58:00	Goddie. Re your last Para. So what do you do? Come on now don't be modest. Proffessional Assassin?? What?? Do tell Nosy Poppa John :D	Poppa John (284)
82911	2002-09-26 00:04:00	I think that the piece of paper isn't all that matters but will definitely help if you've got the experience with it. I've heard of cases of two people applying for a checkout position. Both similar age and experience. But one has a degree so gets the position. But then I've also heard of cases of people applying for programming positions one with a degree the other without. They both had similar knowledge the one WITHOUT the degree got the position because he worked at KFC and had the ability to work in a team. The main problem with jobs in this country is getting the experience. Sure you may have fixed lots of computers for people. But they're not qualified enough to say whether you are good at it or not.	-=JM=- (16)
82912	2002-09-26 00:20:00	Another other benefit about qualifications . I find that having the bit's of paper helps you command more money for a position . Or helps you get that raise . Also, to me, there is a big distinction between qualifications and certification in the IT industry . Unless you have a highly technical and specialist role, I see qualifications (at tertiary level) as helping you get your start . From there certifications are done on the job and help you back up your experience . After a couple of years you'll find employers are more interested in you certifications then your actual degree .	peterhkpan (1911)
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