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Thread ID: 25032	2002-09-24 10:38:00	OT - Copy-Protected CD's	Chilling_Silence (9)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
82628	2002-09-26 22:40:00	I f the hackng law is passed, there is nothing stopping them looking into anyones HD whether they have copyright material or not. Following this theory, you have to assume that everyones HD will be accessed. Problem is, the US does not make NZ law, so NZ would have to agree, or the record companies could be prosecuted from NZ.] That aside (let's say for the moment that NZ goes along with it), here is a simple solution. MP3's are stored on an exernal HD. This HD is disconnected whenever yo are on the internet. Downloads go to your internal HD, Once you have finished downloadeing, you disconnect and copy to your external. That means you are online for 15mins (dialup). Let them try and get inside that window . PLUS, even if they do, the best they can remove is files from that download session. If on broadband, you have a bigger problem, although nothing stops you from copying your collection to CD and then removing the HD permanently. CD-R's played in a CD-ROM drive are still read-only - let me see them destroy those files. The US and NZ are still democracies (please no dubya bush jokes). If the people do not like the laws, they can vote government out. In NZ for instance - if the law was made (an especially since it is so controversial and such a breack of rights) we would simply make it an election issue. The record companies can not pay off every person in NZ - since any citizen can run for parliament. It just won't happen - sorry. G P	Graham Petrie (449)
82629	2002-09-26 22:46:00	Oh, and that's the other point - who says the record companies are not going to abuse their rights (like in the case of hackers setting up their own record labels, or just an unscrupulous record label). "Oh, don't worry" you say, "they will get in trouble if they look at my personal files!" Will they - they could say they were enuring you just hadn't modified the file extension. Even if they were prosectued, it would be too late if they already had McDonalds plans to merge with KFC, or my plans for an alternative fuel etc. If it ever did transpire that this could occur then in the words of a fellow PC user "PCs will just become a phase I went through at one stage". G P	Graham Petrie (449)
82630	2002-09-26 22:55:00	Funny you should say that about PC,s being a phase. If you look at what the big IT/PC companies are working on (TCPA, Palladium, NVidias NForce Chipset, Opteron (AMD) etc etc ) it becomes obvious that everybody is working towards "Closed Box" systems (Like consoles) which the user has no right or possibility of opening and upgrading or changing. I personally think that PCs as we know them (i.e. anyone can build one however they want) will be a fond memory in 5 years.	John Grieve (367)
82631	2002-09-26 23:01:00	YES! That's a good point, what about network drives though, I've got all mine across a dive, it could be maped, or could not be, would they get that, and also, there's a CD-ROM of mine that has Music vids I backed up coz I was running of out room on my HDD (... :-s did i just admit to using p2p... oops?!) and so they wouldn't be able to do that unless they can make my burner burn a hole in it! Also, there is software available that hides folders and files. That works against viruses, would it work against these guys if the folder was fully hidden? I would also be keen to see thiis stopped, how long would it be before the software or techniques they used were leaked to REAL hackers, damage could be done, and FAST. If those guys at the record labels can get into a computer, how long before the white house gets cracked? It wouldn't take long if you ask me. I have only bought about 2-3 CD's in the 3 past years. My parents have bought about 50-60. Yet, I have a small collection of around 400 songs that are all pretty much my favs, not just ones that come on a CD by the same artist, and so you get a few extra songs that arent really as good as they few you expecially like. (Follow where Im going?) So that's why I reakon that its a good idea for the CD Sales shops to do Legal burning of 5 songs onto one CD for $15 incl. GST, and that way the customer chooses, and has 5 favourite songs, rather than 2-3 plus a few extras for $30... Still with me on this one?? I personally dont like the idea of the guys from rubicon being able to hunt around my HDD, or the label that signed them up for that matter. What if SK decides to start a record company. No offence, but please, dont come snooping around my HDD. I've got nothing private other than a few Chats from MSN, but my family might, and who knows how dodgy things could get! What if I rename a file for some reason, like my MP3 to a *.SKL file, I dont think that's a got a file associated, and itd still play in winamp. Would the guys pick that up? In winamp, it plays anything it doesnt recognise like and mp3, whether the extension is .mp3 or not. Chilling_Silence	Chilling_Silence (9)
82632	2002-09-26 23:03:00	Good point GP, I was posting and came back to find two had already gone through. What about if I mod an extention to a .doc, do they then have rights to go through all my personal file, opening them with their winamp or whatever, just to make sure its not a mp3?	Chilling_Silence (9)
82633	2002-09-26 23:16:00	All the discussion we are having has been had in the US. Turns out the law will allow the media companies unfettered access if they believe you have illegal files. .i.e. they can do whatever they want to protect their property. And protection for the media companies from legal attempts to get restitution will be built into the law.	John Grieve (367)
82634	2002-09-27 00:17:00	Yes, but US law is still not NZ law. It's like the US making a law that their organisations are allowed to have unlimited access to Iraqi research files. And having it so that if cought, the companies do not face prosectuion in the US. However, that doesn't stop Iraq from chaing down those companies. it doesn't stop the UN from giving the US an earful. Just becasue US law allows companies to hack without redmeption in the US does not mean they can go overseas and remain free from the other countries laws. The US is not the sole world power yet, as muchas they might think they are. G P	Graham Petrie (449)
82635	2002-09-27 00:22:00	Oh, and what stops me from thinking hmmmm, if you can access my PC, I am going to get my few hundred fellow hackers together and run DOS attacks on your servers, and set up secure, moving/dynamic networks to blatantly transfer your copyrihted material as far and as fast as I can until you stop hacking into our PCs. I will clog up your servers so much, you won't be able to hack. Not only that, but I will distribute an app that will allow others to do so as well. I will use internet cafe machines, and any other terminal that will give me an hour or so unmonitored access. You won't know who I am or where I'm from. I will spoof IP adresses, and if you do track me, so what?? There will still be all my buddies over the world hitting you twice as hard. Be realistic - the online community willnot stand for that kind of privacy breach. There are ways and means to fight back. It will be all out war, and if the US govt doesn't realise this, then they are more nieve than I thought. It is not cut and dried. G P	Graham Petrie (449)
82636	2002-09-27 00:27:00	Last one. OK, I don't actually have the knowledge to do all that above, but there are plenty who do. I do not mean to spit at the record companies and say-haha Ican pirate your material and you can't stop. I do mean to say that if you have no conclusive proof that I have some of your copyrighted material, you have no right to invade my private space to see. I will defend my PC like my own home. So, you think that that corrs track on my PC is pirated?? No, sorry, I bought the CD years ago and ripped it to my drive. You've already admitted that this is legal as long as I am only using it for my personal benefit and I don't share it. How do you expect them to distinguish between leagl and illegal content. Oh, I have 2500 songs on my drive - I must have stolen them! No, have you seen how I live?? I have CD's in every nook and cranny of the house, all legal, all bought and paid for. The law may be put in place so what - the first case that goes to court where the person was innocent, or they hacked a PC with sensiive documents and something went wrong it will be repealed - just like the greek anti-gaming law. How bloody stupid. Only in the US!! G P	Graham Petrie (449)
82637	2002-09-27 00:37:00	So, They think that I've got their music, They then decide to go and delete all the docs in My Documents just in case I've renamed them. I can see a real war going on here! GP, If u can do all that you've just mentioned, and can teach others, I'm with you all the way! I work in a cyber cafe too... but pls dont come looking for me :p All I can say is that they're up for a lot of resistance, and they're gonna dig themselves into a deeper hole. What if that sort of thing goes through, Hackers are gonna get some major software when the stuff they use to do this is leaked. There could be some major havoc on the web! Chilling_Silence	Chilling_Silence (9)
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