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Thread ID: 26892	2002-11-07 19:43:00	IE vs Netscape, Opera, and the rest...	Mike (15)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
96892	2002-11-07 19:43:00	Why do people consider Internet Explorer, Netscape, and Opera to be the mainstream browsers? I so often hear people tell those making websites to make sure the site will run on the three mainstream browsers... Yet Internet Explorer (according to this ZDNet article) has a 94.9% share of the global browser market, with IE6 sitting on top with 52.3%. All Netscape browsers only make up 3% of the global market, and Opera a pitiful 0.9%. See I always followed the advice of others when making webpages, as I thought the share was more something like 60/25/15 or something along those lines... but when it's something as drastic as this, then what's the point in wasting my time? :) Mike.	Mike (15)
96893	2002-11-07 20:00:00	I'd consider Mozilla to be the third one rather than Opera... The other thing to remember is that there are variations between platforms e.g the mac version of IE can render stuff quite differently from windows IE. However the point is that there IS a standard for HTML and it is set down by the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) http://www.w3.org/ They end have a checking program that will see whether you web pages are valid html. http://validator.w3.org/ If your HTML passes this (and doesn't look layout strangely due to browsers not being standard compliant) then it should work on any browser (that is vaguely good). That way people can use their favourite browser and not get IE rammed down their throats. The web is all about being based on standards. Also avoid the evil flash and javascript ;)	gibler (49)
96894	2002-11-07 20:33:00	Mozilla = Netscape doesn't it? I agree that its kinda a waste fighting about what browser is the best. IE does everything good (probably cause everyone configures their pages for it) Netscape is so out of the race it isn't funny. People seem to like Opera, probably cause its not Microsoft and i heard its quite small so good on slower systems. But i do hear Opera has problems with rendering a lot of pages......... like PressF1 (but thats probably cause the pages aren't configured for it) I think when it comes to browsers its easier to just give into microsoft. They do such a good job of integrating it with the whole system, why would you wanna change :-) p.s. notice how i completely ignored anything to do with security. Cause thats just a whole new kettle of fish	roofus (483)
96895	2002-11-07 21:17:00	>Mozilla = Netscape doesn't it? Netscape is derived from Mozilla which is open source, just like star office is derived from open office. >But i do hear Opera has problems with rendering a lot of pages......... like PressF1 (but thats probably cause the pages aren't configured for it) there is no problem with opera rendering PressF1. opera dosn't support a lot of IE only and Netscape only tags. opera is the most standard compliant browser out. but if web site makers incist on useing non-standard codeing...... it just means less people will veiw their site. however the biggest problem with opera is with the active scripting which is due to be fixed in the next ver. (its fairly rare to find a web page that opera won't work in unless they use evil activeX)	tweak'e (174)
96896	2002-11-07 21:26:00	IE, like most Microsoft stuff, seems to insist on doing things that aren't helpful and is resistant to changing it so that it is helpful. To get mine working the other day I had to totally reinstall Win98 and am now using IE5 and Mozilla (IE6 was very much the guilty party). Why can't can't one get rid of some of this unhelpful stuff other than by a complete reinstalation of the entire operating system. I think I must have reinstalled Win98 about 15 time since I first got it (and WinXp about 3 times, I even had to call on my old DOS knowledge and use Windows for Workgroups floppies to make headway there - lucky I kept them. Why can't microsft make friendly operating systems instaed of ones that are a constant battle to get going properly, and even more so to keep going properly. These days I often feel tempted to give up this perpetual battle, follow the advice of my chief advisor and change to Mac (where I started off anyway). I hear the latest Mac OS is pretty good.	rugila (214)
96897	2002-11-07 21:41:00	A browser is a browser, as long as it displays what I wanna see I don't really mind which browser I use and since MS has already integrated one into it's OS I don't see why I need to change :) Mind you .. I had a look at Netscape and I don't like their GUI at all ... so if windows didn't came with any browser I would still download IE instead :D for it's simple yet effective layout	mashimaro (2168)
96898	2002-11-07 21:59:00	Rugila, if you had to reinstall windows 15 times, don't you think its a lack of knowledge on your behalf rather than the softwares fault. Just like anything wether it be a camera, a car, a sport. You have to learn how to use the thing properly before any fun/benefits can exist. Yea tweake that was the point i was getting with IE, how they use non-standard tags, hence making it harder for a browser like Opera. When i was refering to the pressf1 problems with Opera i was refering to the whole advert fiasco.	roofus (483)
96899	2002-11-07 22:44:00	Thanks for your comments Roofus. Point taken in large part. However, I think I could demostrate enough knowledge of software if required. Also you probably know how much junk (useless files, conflicts, etc) tends to accumulate after a lot of software installation. Cleaning it out is possible, but saving the important files (on CD, another HD, another machine, network drive, etc) doing a reformat and reinstallion is often a much much quicker way to achieve a usually better result. Once for example I had a 3-week discussion with Micro$oft about sorting out a webmail problem, they weren't in the end much use and I tracked it down myself eventaully to a conflict with some obsucre SIS driver. And how many unreal problems have you had with realplayer in similar context etc.? Software knowledge isn't that much help with XP anyway, since if you don't like what some of its foiles do you're tough luck stuck with them anyway.	rugila (214)
96900	2002-11-08 00:07:00	> A browser is a browser, as long as it displays what I > wanna see I don't really mind which browser I use and > since MS has already integrated one into it's OS I > don't see why I need to change :) That is the exact reason why MS integrated it. Its good enough for most people so they won't bother taking the time to download/install a competing browser. All they had to do was sit there and wait for netscape users to buy a new computer and watch their marketshare grow. > > Mind you .. I had a look at Netscape and I don't like > their GUI at all ... so if windows didn't came with > any browser I would still download IE instead :D for > it's simple yet effective layout I never really liked the IE UI (I gave it 3 weeks) probably because I started with Netscape 2/3. I guess its a personal preference thing.	bmason (508)
96901	2002-11-08 01:05:00	the advert problems where due to the older java that comes bundled with opera. its easier to download the non-java version and get the java seperately(which will work with IE, netscape and opera). with MS i'm sick of the huge amount of updates needed to be downloaded and the cache bugs, index.dats, and the host of tweaks you have to do to get it to run ok. also i really hate the idea of having programs intergrated into an os. i like to run what i want not what MS wants me to run.	tweak'e (174)
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