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Thread ID: 27407	2002-11-21 21:36:00	small legal advice	SoniKalien (792)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
100462	2002-11-26 22:46:00	Just wanted to say thanks to Jay for his measured and helpful responses in this thread. This is what good customer support is about. Good on you Jay for taking the time and effort to address these issues in the calm and responsible manner that you have! It's a salutary lesson to other vendors about the way in which best to deal with customers (and complaints) in a public forum like this. And I'm sure that the majority of the posters on this thread recognise your attempts to resolve this in a reasonable manner. Mark Evans Business Manager Online IDG Communications	marke (457)
100463	2002-11-27 00:08:00	I agree Mark, I would like to congratulate Orcon as well. Its a pity that a lot of the other PC vendors didn't take a leaf out of Orcons book and show the same commitment to customer service. BALDY:-)	Baldy (26)
100464	2002-11-27 00:50:00	English law indicates that trespass only ever occurs after someone has been notified that their intrusion will be regarded as such... deliberate or accidental presence on someone else's property without such notifications isn't trespass. I assume NZ law would be the same, considering that we still subscribe to the PC.	Greg S (201)
100465	2002-11-27 01:13:00	Hopefully now that they've seen how it can/should be done, they will!! The benefits can flow both ways too - as I think Jay was intimating. Feedback from customers/users in a forum like this can be useful in helping you to improve your customer service and isolate and fix problems - as well as being a cheap and easy way to inform lots of people at the same time instead of having to deal with the same issue with individuals one-by-one. I think that posters need to be fair in their posting too though, and not be abusive. I know that sometimes relationships between companies and customers can break down, but the quickest way to resolve issues is always to avoid becoming abusive or agressive as some of the posts in this forum have done from time-to-time. We all need to remember that at the other end of that phone line or email connection is another person who deserves respect. And it's very easy to fling off an email (or post a message) in haste and in anger, and have a very negative result, when taking a deep breath before you type can be far more effective! Yours in hippyness (although I do wash!) Mark Evans Business Manager Online IDG Communications Ltd	marke (457)
100466	2002-11-27 01:21:00	Actually from a legal standpoint subscribing to the PC (Privy Council for those who were wondering) has nothing to do with whether or not we apply the same rules to trespass as the UK . We basically make legal judgements based on legislation (which is NZ-based) or on legal precedents established both in NZ and in other jurisdictions that share the same legal system (for example Australia, Canada, UK etc) . Australia has replaced appeals to the Privy Council with its own High Court (there have been calls to do the same here in NZ and establish our own High Court) . But Australia still makes judgements that can rest on precedents established by courts in other jurisdictions . As to trespass, decisions about trespass have to do with rights of property ownership (not only land I might add . . . it's been applied to websites as a comeback against hackers too) . There is a long history of case law (that is the precedents I mentioned above) relating to property rights, and any or all of these might come into play as precedents for a trespass case depending on the facts of the case and the particular rights in dispute . (Can you tell my father is a Law professor!) ;-) Mark Evans Business Manager Online IDG Communications	marke (457)
100467	2002-11-27 01:37:00	I was just reading this thread, when I was struck by a peculiar notion:P Hacker: 1: a programmer for whom computing is its own reward; may enjoy the challenge of breaking into other computers 2: A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary. 3: One who enjoys the intellectual challenge of creatively overcoming or circumventing limitations. 4: (Deprecated) A malicious meddler who tries to discover sensitive information by poking around. Hence "password hacker", "network hacker". The correct term is cracker. On the side.... It is better to be described as a hacker by others than to describe oneself that way. Hackers consider themselves something of an elite (a meritocracy based on ability), though one to which new members are gladly welcome. Thus while it is gratifying to be called a hacker, false claimants to the title are quickly labelled as "bogus" or a "wannabee". All thanks to {url=http://dictionary.reference.com/]Dictionary.com[/url]:D But please don't hurt me Sonik. I know you're fast, but ya can't catch me, I'm the gingerbread man:p rads:)	raddersnz (684)
100468	2002-11-27 01:39:00	>ya can't catch me, I'm the gingerbread man Now ... where have my legs gone? ;-)	marke (457)
100469	2002-11-27 01:46:00	> Now . . . where have my legs gone? Where the . . . . . whoa, almost got me:p Dictionary . com (http://dictionary . reference . com/) hehehehaahaha [loads up m16 ready for warfare] :kill: rads	raddersnz (684)
100470	2002-12-02 04:54:00	Have only just read all this lot, but I have to say, at first I agreed with Sonik he had been done. But seeing how totally unreasonable he is and his flippant response to the reasonable (to the point of bending over backwards) posting by Jay I have to say that I hope they sue him and take his house to teach him a good lesson. If a company has employees half as reasonable as Jay why should they take this sort of rubbish? Jay as good as said "Provide a good story, we will let you off." It is very nice to see that IS providers listen and then comment if and when they see fit. LOL Thanks	Camdyman (2591)
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