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| Thread ID: 27407 | 2002-11-21 21:36:00 | small legal advice | SoniKalien (792) | Press F1 |
| Post ID | Timestamp | Content | User | ||
| 100412 | 2002-11-22 04:47:00 | Sorry Graham Somebody has to pay Baycorp to follow up debts and unless Orcon have a "costs of recovery" clause in a contract with Soniks acceptance on it they are whistling dixie trying to add on costs of recovery after the event. Nobody (except perhaps the Mafia) will try recover a $29 debt for nix. There are only three choices: Tough it out Cough it up Negotiate Cheers Billy 8-{) |
Billy T (70) | ||
| 100413 | 2002-11-22 04:55:00 | The aforementioned Mr Garrett had a nasty experience when he found a security flaw in a certain ISPs connections, and then got taken to the cleaners in the courts after being written about in a certain newspaper. His motives were theoretically noble, but not entirely so, and it was a very nasty result. robo. |
robo (205) | ||
| 100414 | 2002-11-22 05:12:00 | > ..so it must happen a lot. Why don't they tighten > their strings then? They are...... they are putting the acid on you for $29 > It did occur to me that something might be amiss so I > wondered how easy it would be to get connected. As it > was, I was very surprised that I could connect > straight away. First of all you said you did it by accident, now you have admitted that you did it to see how easy it would be to get connected..... pay the $29 Dude, or you might loose your free Orcon priveledges..... they might feel inclined to take those away if you peeve them off BALDY:-) |
Baldy (26) | ||
| 100415 | 2002-11-22 05:21:00 | >First of all you said you did it by accident, now you have admitted that you did it to see how easy it would be to get connected..... pay the $29 Dude, or you might loose your free Orcon priveledges..... they might feel inclined to take those away if you peeve them off First of all I never agreed to or signed anything. Secondly I left it on by accident. Ain't this turning into a nice little cabbage patch :D SiK |
SoniKalien (792) | ||
| 100416 | 2002-11-22 05:33:00 | You used a "user-friendly" online system to enable a chargeable service . You used the service . I think that you have agreed to pay for it when you used it . You actually logged in to the service . It is irrelevant that you "didn't mean" to use it . Dialling in, and logging on, was not accidental, and was "using" . How hard they'll chase for payment of $29 is arguable . Maybe a grovelling letter and a picture of the baby might soften the managerial hearts . But don't count on being able to argue that you don't owe it . Of course, I'm not a lawyer . . . I've too much self-respect for that :D |
Graham L (2) | ||
| 100417 | 2002-11-22 07:44:00 | Hey there - Jay here from Orcon, I manage the team for the Residential products (dialup etc) Generally how the system works, is if anyone signs up for an account, we automatically bill them for the service, it explains this reasonably clearly as part of the signup process but if you have any suggestions as to how we can make it clearer let me know : ) I am not sure of your username, so I am talking pretty generally and I like to think that the team would always treat you with respect, honesty and common sense - if that is not the case, let me know. If anyone set the account up either by mistake, or even on purpose, but we can't get the account going, or the customer doesn't access the account, if they call us and explain the issue, then it is pretty reasonable to wipe the charge. I can't think of anyone on the team that would have a problem refunding an account that hasn't been used - again, if that is the case, let me know and I am more than happy to investigate that for you. >I have received an email from them stating that I was committing fraud >by doing so and they have demanded $29 with threats of taking the >case to the police if I dont pay. This path is normally very rarely followed, unless there have been the deliberate intention to defraud us, in these cases we don’t normally muck around, Recently we have had a very small number of people "trying it on" but it is a robust and *very* trackable system. This generally falls into a pretty clear case of a service was supplied, we can prove that it was used, clearly where it was delivered to through caller ID and other identification methods, so it is pretty simple to get a conviction - We have in the past successfully prosecuted people that were thinking they could “work the system” We also normally load through Baycorp too if any accounts are not paid From our side, it is a pretty simple If a customer has signed up for an account and has been using it for a period of time, I generally feel quite happy charging that. - again common sense here - if it *really* is that bad and you have been using it for 10 hours or more, even by mistake, what do you think is fair? If you have any questions or problems at all, please don't hesitate to contact me I am more than happy to sort out whatever is fair. Kindest regards Jay Best Orcon Internet – Residential Product Manager [09] 444 4414 – (9am to 6pm Weekdays) 021-766-760 |
jaybest (2536) | ||
| 100418 | 2002-11-22 08:02:00 | Well I'm just having a look now at my orcon account to see what this is like. From what I can see it seems like one would have to intentionally select the directdebit option, it defaults to credit card. They don't have my address so I don't know if anything is going to happen or not |
-=JM=- (16) | ||
| 100419 | 2002-11-22 09:30:00 | > Hey there - Jay here from Orcon, I manage the team > for the Residential products (dialup etc) Hi Jay, great for you to pop in . > Generally how the system works, is if anyone signs up > for an account, we automatically > bill them for the service, it explains this > reasonably clearly as part of the signup process > but if you have any suggestions as to how we can make > it clearer let me know : ) Well, for starters, I don't recall agreeing to anything, signing anything, or providing any permission to start billing me . Like I said, I clicked on some links . (I class a button as a link BTW) I accessed your dialup without anybodys permission . And how do you expect to send somebody a direct debit form without an address to send it to? > > I am not sure of your username, so I am talking > pretty generally and I like to think > that the team would always treat you with respect, > honesty and common sense > - if that is not the case, let me know . The person I spoke with (via email) was a bit evangelistic, however stopped bugging me after I asked them to . Hm, I think I'll send you an email and give you a full transcription of events and dialog . > > I have received an email from them stating that I > was committing fraud > > by doing so and they have demanded $29 with > threats of taking the > > case to the police if I dont pay . > > This path is normally very rarely followed, unless > there have been the deliberate intention to defraud > us, in these cases we don’t normally muck around, Well, let me reassure that I have not, with criminal intend, commited fraud . And police threats don't scare me . > > Recently we have had a very small number of people > "trying it on" but it is a robust and *very* > trackable system . Please make the phrase 'trying it on' more clearer . If these people are attempting to get through security measures, then Im not one of them . OTOH if they are 'tutuing' or fiddling around, to see how far you can go (without proper forms of ID I might add) then I guess Im guilty as charged . > We also normally load through Baycorp too if any > accounts are not paid Like I said before, you'll have to take a number and stand in line . > From our side, it is a pretty simple > If a customer has signed up for an account and has > been using it for a period of time, > I generally feel quite happy charging that . > - again common sense here - if it *really* is that > bad and you have been using it for > 10 hours or more, even by mistake, what do you think > is fair? Ok, I think $1 payment for a day's use is fair . > > If you have any questions or problems at all, please > don't hesitate to contact me I am more than happy to > sort out whatever is fair . Yes I will . Thanks . SiK |
SoniKalien (792) | ||
| 100420 | 2002-11-22 17:19:00 | Jay Thanks for responding in what seems a reasonable (as in not heavy handed and bolshy) manner. This has been quite a debate. robo. |
robo (205) | ||
| 100421 | 2002-11-22 20:45:00 | I feel all credit is due to Orcon - they've been particularly reasonable, and Jay is, from personal experience, always intent on helping out as much as he can. Sonic's best course should be to call them up and make a quick settlement. | Greg S (201) | ||
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