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Thread ID: 27407	2002-11-21 21:36:00	small legal advice	SoniKalien (792)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
100402	2002-11-21 21:36:00	hi, The other day I accidentally added the dial up service to my Orcon membership. I have received an email from them stating that I was committing fraud by doing so and they have demanded $29 with threats of taking the case to the police if I dont pay. I have basically told them (nicely) that I feel that paying $29 is a rip off and now we are at a mexican standoff. If anybody can advise me where I stand legally it would be greatly appreciated. many thanks in advance SoniKalien	SoniKalien (792)
100403	2002-11-21 22:21:00	Send more money, guns, and lawyers, Mum. Accidentally? What, like you tripped over, hand landed on the telephone, you dialled them up. Coincidentally pushing the exact buttons in the automated system to find the right department, key in your customer account and PIN, and request dial-up service, all without realising it? Or did you just click the wrong button on a web page? Either way, have you used the service? Has anyone else used the service? I would think we are back to the organ grinder versus monkey thing. I don't know what mexican monkeys are like but ask to speak to a supervisor and see if you can find a reasoable compromise. If they have not provided the service they aren't really out of pocket. If they have done some set up work to get you going, then maybe they deserve some payment. Good luck. robo.	robo (205)
100404	2002-11-21 22:30:00	You are going to have to explain this more: "The other day I accidentally added the dial up service to my Orcon membership. ".. I always thought that fraud had to be criminally intentional. I doubt that the police would be interested.	gibler (49)
100405	2002-11-22 00:43:00	Ok, heres how it goes: You got to Orcon and get a membership and then enable your free web space . You can then log in to Orcon, go to control panel, and edit your settings . You can also add / remove services . One such is dial-up . To add dial-up you click on the add dial-up button, then click on send me a direct debit form, then go to the dial-up settings page and there you can find the dialup settings . then create a new dialup in your DUN folder and you have access . 1) You can do all this without providing a shred of evidence of who you really are . 2) I didn't agree to anything . OK, so it wasn't exactly accidental . I just tried the number (I couldn't believe it was so easy) then accidentally (yes truly this time) left it on . I closed Opera which is also supposed to (and does often) close the connection . I then continued downloading stuff, presuming my normal ISP would get dialed, unaware that I was in fact still connected to Orcon . Hmm, maybe I should take it up with management .	SoniKalien (792)
100406	2002-11-22 03:00:00	Your real name isn't Andrew Garrett, is it? Sorry, dude, but sounds like your motivation may well be questionable. Personally, I would probably pay the $29 and walk away. Your case does not sound good from what I read here. If you're going to "try" something, and it works, then you have to at least turn it off. Judge Judy would growl, dude. robo.	robo (205)
100407	2002-11-22 03:36:00	Okay SoniK Let's get real here: 1) $29 is not worth pursuing, by Orcon or anyone else. 2) It isn't likely to be fraud, that probably requires intent but could perhaps be construed as unauthorised use. 3) The Police would not be interested, period, that's it, lights out! 4) That charge cannot reasonably be levied unless it was clearly identified during your accidental *cough* :8} exploit. 5) It is probably standover tactics to ensure that you don't make the same *cough cough* mistake *choke* again. 6) Don't even think about paying anything until you see a formal written request that clearly outlines what you are expected to pay for, why you are expected to pay at all, and the legal basis for that demand, all in plain English. I'd chill out, sit back and see what develops. Keep $29 handy and if a serious letter arrives on their Lawyer's letterhead, think about beating a strategic retreat. Cheers Billy 8-{) :D	Billy T (70)
100408	2002-11-22 03:38:00	Baycorp would try to collect this for Orcon for next to nothing. Is it really worth a bad credit rating for less than 30 bucks?	crozier (2004)
100409	2002-11-22 03:47:00	A few random thoughts occur: -If a service wasn't supplied, it can't be charged for. -If you didn't get a chance to see, and agree, to the standard terms and conditions then you are not subject to them. -If you send them a cheque for $1 (being one day out of one month, a pro-rata share of the $29 charge) and the attached letter says "in full and final settlement" (even if you write it on the back of the cheque) and they bank it, that's it. Game over man, they have no right of action. The cheque will cost you postage and cheque duty, and will cost them to deposit. - I think we are getting $29 worth of entertainment out of it here. And you are getting about 29c worth of legal advice. robo.	robo (205)
100410	2002-11-22 03:53:00	I assume the $29 is a monthly charge . If you register for a service, it doesn't matter how much (or little) you use it in the month . I think it is important to read the instructions . :D If there is no "free period", I'd be a bit careful about registering, then "trying it", then taking no further action . I'd certainly not be surprised to get a a bill, if I was that "challenged" . Orcon are a business . They are providing free hosting, and free email for some people here . I suppose it's not unreasonable for them to expect to be paid for services which are clearly chargeable .	Graham L (2)
100411	2002-11-22 04:44:00	Robo: >Your real name isn't Andrew Garrett, is it? No . Why ask that? Who's he? Besides, you know my real name . >Sorry, dude, but sounds like your motivation may well be questionable . Snot . Im being honest here . They did say: >> . . the same as the police would say if we load this along with the other fraudulent accounts that people sign up with . . . . so it must happen a lot . Why don't they tighten their strings then? BillyT: Thanks . Thats basically wot I was thinking . Crozier: >>>Baycorp would try to collect this for Orcon for next to nothing . Is it really worth a bad credit rating for less than 30 bucks? That's not really an issue with me . If that's the case, Orcon will have to take a number and stand in line . . . It's not like Im a thief or anything . Yea, I got a bad credit rating but **** happens, I don't default on payments to try and get cheap goods . People get made reduntant and people lose their jobs . It happens, sorry Baycorp . Robo: >>>>-If you send them a cheque for $1 The thought did occur to me but I don't know if it would be a waste of time or not . Besides, I don't have a cheque book . Graham L: >>>>>I think it is important to read the instructions . If there is no "free period", I'd be a bit careful about registering, then "trying it", then taking no further action . I'd certainly not be surprised to get a a bill, if I was that "challenged" . There were no instructions or agreement . I clicked a link that said "send me a direct debit form" and only that . It then came up with thanks, we'll send you a form shortly . Of course it didn't occur to me at the time that they didn't have an address to send it to . It did occur to me that something might be amiss so I wondered how easy it would be to get connected . As it was, I was very surprised that I could connect straight away . I have good reason to believe that they might have a problem . Cheers all . SiK	SoniKalien (792)
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