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Thread ID: 27416 2002-11-22 01:42:00 OT - Who's happy about the Big 5 Disshing out DoS attacks?! Chilling_Silence (9) Press F1
Post ID Timestamp Content User
100518 2002-11-22 20:26:00 > Hmm...so in your view JM, is it all right to
> steal...say electricity?

Yes, but as a result of your theft of electricity there is less in the system. After taking a digital copy the original remains. It's not the same. Electricity is a tangible thing, whereas copyright lives in the realm of thought and ideas. 		BIFF (1)
100519 2002-11-23 04:26:00 >Drilled some of the timber and inserted .22 bullets.
> Would you do this?
> I would! Only I hope I might be a little more subtle.

I don't believe that you would, Elephant. Not once you sat down and thought about it for more than a few seconds - what if you killed him?Most rational people wouldn't risk a life sentence like that. 		crozier (2004)
100520 2002-11-23 04:30:00 >You are not stealing the generator, the cables, the transformer.

Actually, Godfather, technically you can't steal electricity because it theoretically returns onlong the wires ;) 		crozier (2004)
100521 2002-11-23 08:44:00 > Yes, but as a result of your theft of electricity
> there is less in the system. After taking a digital
> copy the original remains. It's not the same.
> Electricity is a tangible thing, whereas copyright
> lives in the realm of thought and ideas.

The effect is opposite but similar in nature. With electricity you do indeed leave less of the original energy that was created.
With stealing a copy of an original work, you put one more copy into circulation, reducing the demand for the creation by one.

>>Actually, Godfather, technically you can't steal electricity because it >>theoretically returns onlong the wires

It is the energy you are (theoretically) stealing, the energy dissapated in the device you have connected. Let's not get into the subject of electron flow..

:-) 		godfather (25)
100522 2002-11-23 17:31:00 An interesting discussion. Why would anyone want to "Steal" music today? It's all tuneless rubbish. I haven't bought (or Stolen) any music for at least 20 years.
I still listen to music from the big band era.
My favorite vocalist is still Frank Sinatra.
Jack. 		JJJJJ (528)
100523 2002-11-23 21:15:00 >
> And before you say "but I don't know how to steal
> electricity", remember the electricity thief probably
> doesn't know how to download pirated music.
>
> $0.02

I know how to steal electricity - all you need is an insulated screwdriver - and I know how to download music too.

They are both theft. In the case of the music, theft directly from the artist, as in most cases the company has already re-couped its costs from ledit sales of CDs in retail outlets 		Baldy (26)
100524 2002-11-23 21:21:00 > > Hmm...so in your view JM, is it all right to
> > steal...say electricity?
>
> Yes, but as a result of your theft of electricity
> there is less in the system. After taking a digital
> copy the original remains. It's not the same.
> Electricity is a tangible thing, whereas copyright
> lives in the realm of thought and ideas.
>

Until you breach it Biff.

Open a burger bar in even the smallest of NZ towns, call it McDonalds, using the exact same logo and golden arches - and see what happens.

Copyright is there as a legal protection 		Baldy (26)
100525 2002-11-23 22:21:00 > > > Hmm...so in your view JM, is it all right to
> > > steal...say electricity?
> >
> > Yes, but as a result of your theft of electricity
> > there is less in the system. After taking a
> digital
> > copy the original remains. It's not the same.
> > Electricity is a tangible thing, whereas copyright
> > lives in the realm of thought and ideas.
> >
>
> Until you breach it Biff.
>
> Open a burger bar in even the smallest of NZ towns,
> call it McDonalds, using the exact same logo and
> golden arches - and see what happens.
>
> Copyright is there as a legal protection

Well obviously. I thought the purpose of this thread was to discuss the issue, not quote the law. My point wasn't whether it's legal or not, simply that it is not the same as theft in the traditional sense. 		BIFF (1)
100526 2002-11-24 01:18:00 When Something is infinitely reproducible, it has no inherent value as an object . The only value it retains is the value it holds as information .

When digitally encoded, music is information, it is distributed at essentially not cost, you don't lose the original, you may continue to listen to your hearts content .
There was a brief effort by the RIAA to add a royalty fee on CD's sold second hand . I in no way believe that the argument is in anyway powered by the "intellectual property" leagalese, that is the smoke screen they sit behind to milk as much money as they can out of people who want to listen to the music they control . What they fear is losing control, but they wont change their tactics until it becomes more cost effective to choose another way to distribute .

the thing about CD's is they are easy, you pop them in anything & you have music . If they add Copy Protection so that you can only listen to them in a stereo, people wont buy them, or if they do & try to put them in PC & it jams the CD-ROM, or in the case of some Apple's require you to actually remove the drive physically to get the offending CD out, you will feel alienated, you will feel Big Business is yet again reaching out to manipulate what you are able & unable to do in your own home, I imagine that they will not be happy until you have to rent your music .

Having vented all that, MP3 downloading is illegal . So some way of maing sure those who create are rewarded for it needs to be found, so we can all benefit, but if America does make it legal for owners of Intellectual property to "attack" any server, PC or whatever that they think! has copyrighted material on it, all you will get is cracker groups copyrighting some poem, or picture, anything really . . . & then assaulting whatever they like under the aegis of "but they might have my property on that machine" 		flying_green_leprachaun (1767)
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