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Thread ID: 27819	2002-12-03 10:22:00	University vs. Polyech and other places	-=JM=- (16)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
103070	2002-12-03 10:22:00	Hi everyone, just wanting to check your opinions....... again. I'm sure there are others here facing the same dilemma at the moment. :) I'm looking at either going to Christchurch Polytechnic Institute of Technology (www.cpit.ac.nz) or University of Canterbury (http:). Either the B.ICT (www.cpit.ac.nz) at CPIT or a B.COM (www.canterbury.ac.nz) (or B.Sc (www.canterbury.ac.nz)) at UoC. Here is some info about the Computer Science at UoC (www.canterbury.ac.nz) The subjects I'm looking at doing are computer science (mainly) with some networking as well. Planning on getting employed in NZ but also would like to work overseas as well if the opportunity arose. From what I can gather the polytech is there more to teach you so you can get a job, where as the uni seems to be more giving you knowledge. Ofcourse to get a job some experience is needed, the CPIT course comes with 6 months of work experience in the industry (lots are then employed apparently) where as with the uni degree it seems to be that you then need to get the experience from somewhere. Not wanting to offend anyone but it also seems as if a polytech has traditionally been somewhere that high-school drop outs or people that can't get into uni go to. Where as now some of there courses seem very good indeed. So I was wanting your opinions, whether you employ people, work in the industry, are in the same dilemma, have been to one of the places, or have not. Just want your opinions and/or experiences.	-=JM=- (16)
103071	2002-12-03 10:30:00	Should have also mentioned that the style of learning seems to be different as well. With polytech having less students in a lecture and things like that. Current qualifications: 'B' Bursary Ceritificate in Information Technology (through CPIT, but at Christchurch College of Computing (www.ccc.school.nz). I think this (http:) is it. CNAP Semester One ICDL NZ PCDL (soon) I can get into both places (already accepted to CPIT). The CertIT means I've already covered the first 6-12 months of the B.ICT.	-=JM=- (16)
103072	2002-12-03 20:31:00	Hi JM I cannot speak about computer courses at either place, or about the computer industry, but I did want to comment on your guarded statement: "Not wanting to offend anyone but it also seems as if a polytech has traditionally been somewhere that high-school drop outs or people that can't get into uni go to. Where as now some of there courses seem very good indeed." It is true that Polytechnics have traditionally been the place for trade training, and they still are. I think that is different from what you are saying. My daughter, who was perfectly capable of doing well at university, chose to go to a poly (ATI as it then was) because she wanted to become a patissierre (?sp - pastry chef!). With that qual, she has worked and held her positions, at a range of the best hotels in NZ, Oz, England and Scotland. She is currently the pastry chef at an exclusive resort in England, having been head hunted by her previous boss at one of the top London hotels. I am not parading this to skite (!), but to point out that many polys provide extremely high levels of education and training, to national and international standards. For me, the differences are something like this: 1. in some circles, a degree from a "traditional" university will have status over a poly qualification. 2. in extremely general terms, the university qual may be stronger on theory and research (though not necessarily on the quality of delivery of that programme content). 3. again in extremely general terms, the poly qual may be stronger in all round competence - there is likely to be a stronger blend of knowledge and applied skills, as opposed to a greater emphasis on "head stuff". If I was an employer in the IT industry, again in general terms, I would focus on employing people who are work ready; who do not need extra on site training to assist a graduate to apply the theory to the practice I expect from them in the workplace. If I was contemplating the choice you are making, I would suggest doing a few things: 1. pick some well known firms in the IT industry, and contact their human resource people and ask their opinion. Who knows, you may even pick up a sponsor, or vacation employment offer! 2. find out from CPIT and the uni who represents the industry on their programme advisory groups - this will give you some idea of who is supporting which, and you may be able to contact them to get their opinion as well. 3. I would ask myself whether I wanted to go on to do a higher degree such as a masters or PhD. If you think that is possible, find out whether the poly qual will articulate to a higher (uni) degree - how much credit will you get, will the poly qual be recognised to allow you to go on to the higher level degree, is there sufficient research content in the poly programme so that you wouldn't have to do a bridging or catch up programme before you were allowed to enter the higher degree. 4. ask both places for information about the international recognition for the exact quals you are interested in. I hope some of those points help. Just please don't write off a poly on the basis of the general statement you included in your post about drop outs! Good luck John	John H (8)
103073	2002-12-03 21:38:00	Hi, I obtained a degree at a polytech, a Bachelor of Information Systems at Manukau Institute of Technology. Every degree has a philosophy behind it that sets out what a student will be able to accomplish once graduated. This philosophy also sets out what position in the market the degree is aimed at. An example of this is that the degree I completed is aimed at 20 % business and 80 % computer science. This means that you will study some business papers as well to get this degree. I do not believe that either poly or uni are any better than each other, it comes down to what you want to get from your study experience. I chose this degree because I believe employers now require a mix of business knowledge and system knowledge. Hope this helps you in your decision	gregor_nz (2666)
103074	2002-12-03 22:51:00	First of all I when to polytech rather than Uni . . . I preferred to polytech style of training (but that was 20 years ago :\) My suggestion would be to get a University degree . These days it can be so difficult to get into "IT" and many employers filter out those that do not have a uni degree (open minded employers should allow equivalent level polytech qualifications but not employers are open minded) . Having said that its a personal decision . You could go to polytech and then get a MSCE qualification which would help to gain employment . Good luck in whatever go do . I could suggest getting in touch with some IT recruitment agencies and see what they recommend in terms of what employers look for .	Dolby Digital (160)
103075	2002-12-04 03:51:00	From my short experience varsity is more focused on the pure mathematical computer science with a heavy focus on programming, where as a polytechnic or institute of technology as they prefer to be called these days are more practical and varied in what they teach and perhaps will give better hands on training. You decide what is best for you!	Wombus (2622)
103076	2002-12-04 04:04:00	You should really make the decision yourself . I would go with the university myself . Brendonny	Brendonny (929)
103077	2002-12-04 04:12:00	> Not wanting to offend anyone but it also seems as if > a polytech has traditionally been somewhere that > high-school drop outs or people that can't get into > uni go to. Where as now some of there courses seem > very good indeed. As a polytech tutor (not in computers) I both agree and disagree strongly with this statement. Yes, the general feeling (pushed by high school teachers who have never left school to experience the real world) is as you say. Polys are traditionally where tradesmen learn their stuff, and as the trades are seen by the previously mentioned group as the lowest of the low, the statement is propagated. Due to this attitude, there are now rapidly declining numbers entering trades (which do actually require a high level of maths and english comprehension skills) and therefore a demand is growing. Lets see how well the pc works when there is nowhere to plug it in! As a consequence, Polys are now moving into higher quals - degrees. These tend to be shorter in duration (and hence cheaper) than universities because we don't have a five month break over the summer. The poly degrees also tend to concentrate on useable workplace skillsets rather than esoteric knowledge, so hopefully will make the student into a useful product for the work environment. Still, as you may guess, I'm a little biased, so pay your money and make your choice, but I believe there are a lot more unemployed graduate computer students than builders, electricians, plumbers or mechanics (one of my apprentice class students working in industrial maintenance made over $90k last year - bet a computer tech trainee doesn't come close to that as a trainee!) Cheers, andy	andy (473)
103078	2002-12-04 06:52:00	Yes I should have added more about the polytech statement. I was meaning more in the someone wanting to study something at uni but doesn't quite make the grade. So they may go to the polytech and do a certificate then go to uni the following year. I'm well aware that the polytech does offer some very good courses and would definitely be my first port of call if I was interested in being a chef or something. Thanks for the suggestions and recommendations so far. *goes off to email HR people*	-=JM=- (16)
103079	2002-12-04 08:26:00	JM, Interesting to see this topic. I am also a recent graduate from MIT in BET Yeah polytechs are more trade and apllied skills oriented and Uni's are more research/theory/abstract oriented. From my experience, yes quite a few employers only prefer Uni graduates. i tried graduate programmes from some companies and their response was that they preferred Uni Grad only. And the impression i have is that for "professional" roles, Uni grad are preferred generally while institute Grad are more likely to end up in technical/semi professional role from where they can move up. And yeah if you plan on moving to overseas then get a Uni Qual. Cheers	pluto (2246)
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