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Thread ID: 126529	2012-09-03 00:19:00	Outsourcing ! Unbelievable!	Digby (677)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1298513	2012-09-04 09:52:00	You're one of a kind, pal.	KarameaDave (15222)
1298514	2012-09-04 20:04:00	Outsourcing will reduce employment in the short term, but in the long term this will mostly, if not absolutely, be reversed due to businesses that produce goods we have a comparative advantage in starting up. Also, the benefit that most people get from buying cheaper goods will outweigh the extra cost that is caused by the small rise in the long-term unemployment rate. . Good theory. Actually, the countries that were buying all this stuff had plent of money, households wer well off and wanted to buy things. Then it got sent overseas to be made instead. Everything. Electronics, cars, clothes, the lot pretty much. People lost their jobs. So, no matter how cheap, how do they afford to buy anything? Destructive cycle...	pctek (84)
1298515	2012-09-04 21:40:00	Good theory. Actually, the countries that were buying all this stuff had plent of money, households wer well off and wanted to buy things. Then it got sent overseas to be made instead. Everything. Electronics, cars, clothes, the lot pretty much. People lost their jobs. So, no matter how cheap, how do they afford to buy anything? Destructive cycle... They afford to buy things because they take up jobs in which their country has a comparative advantage in. And their country will have a comparative advantage in something, even if another country has an absolute advantage in it.	Nick G (16709)
1298516	2012-09-04 22:03:00	We in the west are now used to cheap consumer goods. I suspect our pattern of spendin has changed. Less on consumer goods more on housing etc. And yes back in the 80's when this all started we all had jobs, but not much consumer choice. Now we have lots of consumer choice and no jobs. Nick, what areas do you see that NZ has a comparative advantage in? Where we can sell goods all over the world at good prices and provide good paying jobs?	Digby (677)
1298517	2012-09-04 22:05:00	I assume what that means is that they will use virtual software and servers overseas, and therefore they will not need NZ IT departments. You know what they say about assuming...	inphinity (7274)
1298518	2012-09-04 22:44:00	<snip> Nick, what areas do you see that NZ has a comparative advantage in? Where we can sell goods all over the world at good prices and provide good paying jobs? We are good at dairy, I would say we have an absolute advantage in that area. Unfortunately we are not making the most of it, as it is possible to dairy with much less environmental impact than we are now. I would say we would have a comparative advantage in lamb, this also extends to wool. For example, the Japanese company using our wool to make top quality coats - if we pushed this in other countries it could prove lucrative. Going off stats nz, wood products are a important export, which would tend to indicate we have a comparative advantage relating to wood products. If we manage our forests well this could grow as others exploit their forests, thus reducing supply and making ours more valuable. Same with fish, if we manage our fish stocks well they should continue to grow in importance as others kill of their stocks due to overfishing. Fruit was another substantial export, which would tend to indicate we have a comparative advantage in this area as well. For some things, like the kiwifruit, we have an absolute advantage which could prove important if we get rid of PSA. I see two main problems here however. One is said PSA, if we are going to have free trade we must monitor our border very closely. The other is dairy, we need to start ensuring it has as small an environmental impact as possible as it will hurt our tourist industry. If we do both of these we could help ourselves. __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________ Of course, there is a white elephant in the room here, which I will also cover - the Treaty payments. These are hurting our economy. I think what would be a good way to stop this while still being realistic would be to do two things. One would be to cut down and stop stupid claims, such as airwaves, water, wind. Number two would be to change how Treaty payments are made. I think that a great solution would be to, instead of paying it directly, put payments into a 'Maori fund'. Then, Maori could apply for money from the fund, first having to prove how it would help Maori, particularly poorer class Maori, or the environment. This could mean that the fund could be used for Maori scholarships, insulation for Maori, even a food subsidy for poor Maori, or it could be used to pay to clean up a river if they wanted.. This would cut down on treaty payments, and help ensure that the money given to them goes to good use.	Nick G (16709)
1298519	2012-09-04 22:51:00	Who says the cloud is overseas? there are cloud services based in NZ.	Gobe1 (6290)
1298520	2012-09-04 23:27:00	Who says the cloud is overseas? there are cloud services based in NZ. They have said initially they will be using NZ services but it might be a slippery slope.	mikebartnz (21)
1298521	2012-09-04 23:35:00	Nick You mention prodcust that NZ does has comparive adbnategs in and that we do well with. Dairy Wool Lamb Wood Fish Fruit Kiwi Fruit. You are right about all of those. But imho NOT ONE of those provide good high paying jobs, aside from wood perhaps. And if any of those industries put their wages up to say Australian levels those industries would suffer hug export losses. So could you care to offer some other examples ? (Don't get me wrong I'm on your side, I just like to see NZ exporting more and importing less)	Digby (677)
1298522	2012-09-04 23:58:00	We are good at dairy, I would say we have an absolute advantage in that area. Unfortunately we are not making the most of it, as it is possible to dairy with much less environmental impact than we are now. Fonterra is setting up dairy farms in China and South America so we will be doing the same there as we did with Kiwi fruit. A shipment of in calf 2y cows just left Napier recently bound for China. I am not sure how many thousand it was but I know it was well over three. So once again we are shooting ourselves in the foot. I would say we would have a comparative advantage in lamb, this also extends to wool. For example, the Japanese company using our wool to make top quality coats - if we pushed this in other countries it could prove lucrative. Going off stats nz, wood products are a important export, which would tend to indicate we have a comparative advantage relating to wood products. If we manage our forests well this could grow as others exploit their forests, thus reducing supply and making ours more valuable. Same with fish, if we manage our fish stocks well they should continue to grow in importance as others kill of their stocks due to overfishing. Did you know that there is more goat meat eaten in the world than lamb/mutton. We now have about a third of the sheep numbers than what we had in 1984. The Italians are the ones that take our best quality wool, usually merino, for the high class suit market but farmers hardly find it worth taking it off the sheeps back most years as there is just not enough money in it. Merino's aren't successful around most of NZ. As for forestry the problem there is they want our logs but not so much a finished product so not a lot you can do there unless we banned the export of whole logs. Not a lot more we can do with fishing except with fish farms. The 1960's - 1970's proves what happens as that was when we plundered the seas for Orange Roughy. Fruit was another substantial export, which would tend to indicate we have a comparative advantage in this area as well. For some things, like the kiwifruit, we have an absolute advantage which could prove important if we get rid of PSA. Kiwi fruit is about stuffed since that virus came in and since we let them grow it in South America and Italy we don't have a great advantage there and we have no real advantage in any other fruit. Manuka honey is one area we do have a real advantage in because of its UMF and so its health properties. __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________ Of course, there is a white elephant in the room here, which I will also cover - the Treaty payments. These are hurting our economy. I think what would be a good way to stop this while still being realistic would be to do two things. One would be to cut down and stop stupid claims, such as airwaves, water, wind. Number two would be to change how Treaty payments are made. I think that a great solution would be to, instead of paying it directly, put payments into a 'Maori fund'. Then, Maori could apply for money from the fund, first having to prove how it would help Maori, particularly poorer class Maori, or the environment. This could mean that the fund could be used for Maori scholarships, insulation for Maori, even a food subsidy for poor Maori, or it could be used to pay to clean up a river if they wanted.. This would cut down on treaty payments, and help ensure that the money given to them goes to good use. Unless that money is going overseas it doesn't change things too much for the economy. More of a worry is the lack of NZ owned companies so retaining dividends and profits here.	mikebartnz (21)
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