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Thread ID: 126915	2012-09-24 21:47:00	I Still Don't Understand This Story	SurferJoe46 (51)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1303152	2012-09-24 21:47:00	They have to PAY a tax to go to church? Never heard of such a thing . Article follows, C/P::: German Catholics lose church rights for unpaid tax Catholic church in Emsdetten, Germany The number of Catholics leaving the Church has sharply increased Germany's Roman Catholics are to be denied the right to Holy Communion or religious burial if they stop paying a special church tax . A German bishops' decree which has just come into force says anyone failing to pay the tax - an extra 8% of their income tax bill - will no longer be considered a Catholic . The bishops have been alarmed by the number of Catholics leaving the Church . They say such a step should be seen as a serious act against the community . All Germans who are officially registered as Catholics, Protestants or Jews pay a religious tax of 8-9% on their annual income tax bill . The levy was introduced in the 19th Century in compensation for the nationalisation of religious property . "If your tax bill is for 10,000 euros, then 800 euros will go on top of that and your total tax combined will be 10,800 euros," Munich tax accountant Thomas Zitzelsberger told the BBC news website . Catholics make up around 30% of Germany's population but the number of congregants leaving the church swelled to 181,000 in 2010, with the increase blamed on revelations of sexual abuse by German priests . Alarmed by their declining congregations, the bishops were also pushed into action by a case involving a retired professor of church law, Hartmut Zapp, who announced in 2007 that he would no longer pay the tax but intended to remain within the Catholic faith . The Freiburg University academic said he wanted to continue praying and receiving Holy Communion and a lengthy legal case between Prof Zapp and the church will reach the Leipzig Federal Administrative Court on Wednesday . "This decree makes clear that one cannot partly leave the Church," Germany's bishops' conference said last week, in a decision endorsed by the Vatican . 'Wrong signal' Unless they pay the religious tax, Catholics will no longer be allowed receive sacraments, except before death, or work in the church and its schools or hospitals . Without a "sign of repentance before death, a religious burial can be refused," the decree states . Opting out of the tax would also bar people from acting as godparents to Catholic children . "This decree at this moment of time is really the wrong signal by the German bishops who know that the Catholic church is in a deep crisis," Christian Weisner from the grassroots Catholic campaign group We are Church told the BBC . But a priest from Mannheim in south-western Germany, Father Lukas Glocker, said the tax was used to do essential good works . "With kindergarten, with homes for elderly or unemployed, we've got really good things so I know we need the tax to help the German country to do good things . " While the decree severely limits active participation in the German Catholic Church, it does hold out some hope for anyone considering a return to the fold . Until now, any German Catholic who stopped payment faced eventual excommunication . Although the measures laid out in the decree are similar to excommunication from the church, German observers say the word is carefully avoided in the decree . So - do they check tax receipts at the door or is there a gvt agent there collecting them? This is all very confusing .	SurferJoe46 (51)
1303153	2012-09-24 21:56:00	Possibly it only applies very early in April? It seems a worthwhile idea that the Gov't should enthusiastically adopt. Churches could vie for the highest rate contributed to the IRD and the parishoners in the top decile could automatically lose their vote and be given iPads. ;)	R2x1 (4628)
1303154	2012-09-24 22:51:00	I'm still flummoxed on this concept . They pay taxes to whom? They pay 8% for what? Who enforces the taxation? Do they check ID at the church door? Does the church then NOT have internal collections (EG: fleecing the flock a second time?) How large can a family be to be covered under the same 8%? Catholics have BIG families - it's doctrinal . Is it just the RCC or do other churches also have the same taxes? < cue: head-scratching smiley face here >	SurferJoe46 (51)
1303155	2012-09-24 22:57:00	I think that I would be looking for a cheaper religion. It is a long time since I have been to church but I do remember the plate being handed around during a church service. I guess that churches need to get money from somewhere. I think that Mormans get charged 10% so being a Catholic might be a bit cheaper at 8%.	Bobh (5192)
1303156	2012-09-24 23:18:00	Atheism is the cheapest religion of them all :D	pcuser42 (130)
1303157	2012-09-24 23:25:00	Perhaps it is a tax on the gullible....	johcar (6283)
1303158	2012-09-25 01:32:00	iTax? ;)	R2x1 (4628)
1303159	2012-09-25 02:53:00	I'm still flummoxed on this concept. I think the other term for it is a tithe. Or like in your church - a "contribution".	pctek (84)
1303160	2012-09-25 03:07:00	I think the other term for it is a tithe . Or like in your church - a "contribution" . Tithe (a tenth) is normally a voluntary contribution to the Christian Church . Religeous churches like the Roman Catholic bled their congregation blind, according to the book The Great Controversy which I have just read . Churches' don't normally pay taxes or rates, do they ? . Germany was once part of the Holy Roman Empire, Martin Luther had other ideas tho . Lurking .	Lurking (218)
1303161	2012-09-25 04:51:00	Churches' don't normally pay taxes or rates, do they ?. only because they run at a loss, they would never have a profit to "tax" If they did they are not running their books properly or spending enough EDIT: this is viewed as "church" not priest/pastor or whatever you want to call them, as they probably have to pay tax on their wages?	Gobe1 (6290)
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