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Thread ID: 31082	2003-03-11 08:46:00	Warranty	Darkomen (3334)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
127313	2003-03-13 04:20:00	Better still,ring up commerce commission like I did and ask them to advise you on your case,they will tell you what to do and what the law is.	Thomas (1820)
127314	2003-03-13 04:31:00	Well Brian........IMHO (and experience) the Commerce Commission are hopeless at giving real-world advice because they don't understand how the marketplace works, or how traders try to evade their responsibilities. They are excellent for explanations of how the law is supposed to be applied and what your rights supposedly are, but they can't translate that into action, that is to say, they don't come in to bat for the little man. In all fairness though, that is not their function. They are there to regulate the marketplace, to take on the big offenders and (hopefully) to scare the living bejeezus out of the little offenders with the occasional inquiry. The Consumer Guarantees Act and the Disputes Tribunal are the principal remedies for the man in the street after all else fails. That or Fair Go if your story makes good television! Cheers Billy 8-{) :|	Billy T (70)
127315	2003-03-13 06:28:00	Billy,one can only talk from experience,I have had good luck with them and would recommend having a go via that channel,just insist,that's what I did.	Thomas (1820)
127316	2003-03-13 07:22:00	okay how about this hyperthetical question... customer buys a pc with a 1ghz cpu and 256 ram 20gb harddrive NIC, Modem and a geforce 3 with 32mb running windows ME got the specs? two years later the 'customer" says that the pc can no-longer do "everything" she bought the PC to do. she now claims fails to do "everyting she wants it to do" and decides to take it back to the store she bought it from. 1) was she clear as to the sales person what she wanted the pc to do? 2) did she perform "regular and preventative maintenance" for said pc? 3) were the functions/processes she was trying to perform beyond the scope of the pc (ie trying to run Windows XP on a 486) feeling thoughts? :-) just some thoughts	minos (3185)
127317	2003-03-13 07:29:00	This is called a Dilemma...State of uncertainty or perplexity especially as requiring a choice between equally unfavorable options,you need a philosopher to answer those questions,not a lawyer.	Thomas (1820)
127318	2003-03-13 09:08:00	here is another hyperthetical question......... if the service life (the period it should be under warranty for), for a pc is 4-5 years the why the hell are people buying pc's with only a 1 year warranty ????? ?:| ?:| and add to that most consumer electronics entire lifetime is only 5 years anyway. :O	tweak'e (174)
127319	2003-03-13 09:12:00	Hi Minos I think the key lies in what the computer can no longer do . If for reasons of actual hardware failure it can no longer carry out the same functions that it could when new, or even during the first 12 months, then there is a fitness for purpose issue present . It is not a valid argument that it cannot run the latest bloatware, released after the purchase date and requiring OS updates, processor speed, or RAM levels not present in that computer . It was not designed to offer that performance level . Similarly, if the performance issues are due to lack of operational maintenance, i . e . HDD loaded so much there is no room for a swap file, never defragged, infested with virii or trojans, registry corrupted by shonky downloads of even shonkier programs, then she hasn't got a prayer . As a parallel, imagine a young woman buying a new sporty "turbo" car but never carrying out routine maintenance . Obviously this is a little different because the warranty conditions for a car specify maintenance routines and time/km servicing periods, but stay with me here . Suppose she bought it to do regular high speed trips down country to visit her aging Mum . She didn't mention this and the Dealer didn't ask . The trips includes a lot of motorway driving that she usually does late at night . She isn't very good at getting it serviced and misses most of the warranty service checks . Even though she is a bit of a lead foot, she is not familiar with five speed gearboxes so she sticks to 4th gear and runs for long period at high peed and excessive revs . She doesn't pump up the tires or check the oil & water . For lack of cooling and oil the turbo blows and the motor seizes . Was there anything wrong with the vehicle? Was it defective in manufacture or design? Is there a claim against the warranty? I think not, though that would not stop some people trying of course . Without the abuse, and serviced regularly, a normal service life could have been expected . Another scenario, a man buys an automatic 4 cylinder FWD vehicle to tow his new trailer-sailer to the local lake . The dealer assures him it is suitable for towing the boat, but he soon gets the sailing bug, sells the trailer sailer and buys a much larger boat that he continues to tow with the same vehicle but to the sea instead, which is much further away . One day the automatic transmission seizes due to prolonged overheating from towing excessive loads up hills and boat ramps . Has he got a claim under the vehicle warranty? In my opinion he hasn't, no more so than the computer user who doesn't carry out routine maintenance or tries to run software that the computer or OS were not intended to run . It is unrealistic to expect a consumer to know in advance where their computing adventures may lead them, and the dealer can only sell them something that fits their declared needs at the time of purchase . Even if their ability to predict their future needs is limited, it is not for the dealer to assume what their needs will be and upgrade their purchase accordingly . That is also an unrealistic expectation . So, to answer the questions derived from your hypothetical situation She now claims it fails to do "everything she wants it to do" and decides to take it back to the store she bought it from . 1) Was she clear as to the sales person what she wanted the pc to do? Unless she provided a written specification and possessed sufficient experience to negotiate specification changes with the salesperson, there is unlikely to be a valid claim, and if there is, unless there is a fault in the computer, it still won't be a warranty matter . Her claim might lie under other legislation though . 2) Did she perform "regular and preventative maintenance" for said pc? If not, then until she pays or bribes someone to carry out that maintenance and restore the system to overall health, and it still doesn't work properly, again she has no claim . 3) Were the functions/processes she was trying to perform beyond the scope of the pc (ie trying to run Windows XP on a 486) No comment needed, just no claim . Warranties are not there to protect the inexperienced, untrained or ignorant against their own negligence or incompetence . They are there to protect buyers against material failures in manufacturing, failure to provide maintenance services with adequate care and skill, or failure to carry out maintenance obligations that form part of the sales contract . Beyond exercising due care and reasonable responsibility, there is no obligation on the salesperson to do anything more than honestly represent the capabilities of the computer to the prospective purchaser . They are not required to anticipate the future needs, skills or lack of skills of the buyer, and nor are these matters that fall within the terms of the manufacturer's warranty . I'd be interested to know whether your arguments are hypothetical, or based on a genuine situation . Cheers Billy 8-{)	Billy T (70)
127320	2003-03-13 09:20:00	That's nonsense Thomas. I see you are sticking to your principles and continuing to supply unhelpful responses. Have you any idea what percentage of your posts are frivolous, sarcastic or just downright unhelpful? Count them. This is a forum for helping people, with the occasional burst of off-topic frivolity. Please try to use your talents to help once in a while. Billy 8-{(	Billy T (70)
127321	2003-03-13 18:53:00	Before going any further try talking to the retailer who you brought the computer from . You will find most are actually quite helpful and friendly if you are polite and put things forward clearly . I sell computers for a living and have run into this problem previously, the biggest issue we have as a retailer is we have no control over the environment the computer is operated in . i . e heat, power supply, dust etc and the condition I have seen PC's arrive in when people try to say they looked after them is a constant source of amazement . Unfortunately the retailer often has their hands tied by the supplier with regards to the guarantee . Suppliers lay down very strict rules with regards to faulty product and if they are deviated from by the retailer then often they refuse to reimburse the retailer leaving them out of pocket . Great for customer service but bad for the retailer and several small business's have closed down due to the losses taken in this regard . The advent of the Big box retailer has reduced the profit margin greatly in the computer and electrical appliance industry . instead of being able to operate with a comfortable profit the industry is now cutting costs drastically as profit shrinks, in the last 6 months in my location our profit margin has been cut literally in half . This means we now have to sell twice as much to the same amount of people all the time reducing our costs ( service is usually the first to suffer ) just to maintain a healthy profit . Unfortunately the general public still believe that profit is a dirty word and should be made from everyone but them . Now you have the retailers side of the story contact the retailer you purchased it from and explain the problem clearly and politely and ask what can be done to repair it . Get the salespersons name and make notes of anything stated . Be nice and they will be the same back . Give them a reasonable amount of time to follow up ( 3 days max ) as they may be snowed under with their workload right then . If the salesperson can't help then speak to their manager and theirs etc till you get to the person who can . Only if this fails do I suggest looking at the CGA as you will find everyone in sales are intimately aware of it . Whenever someone marches into my store fluffing off and demanding their rights under the act that is EXACTLY what they get . Often we will do more to help the "nice" customers but the demanding ones get the barest minimum of service etc possible . Just remember it is not the fault of the salesperson that it failed and they sold you the goods in "good faith"	dipstick01 (445)
127322	2003-03-13 19:01:00	Back to Darkomen... what has blown on your MB? the graphics, the sound, the ram slots, the cpu, the bays, the bios, something else.... which bit? How did you come to that conclusion..? and what were you doing at the time? did it 'kill itself', with nothing but 'regular computing' on your part or was it helped?	Trev0 (1995)
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