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| Thread ID: 31398 | 2003-03-20 21:15:00 | The big linux problem | E.ric (351) | Press F1 |
| Post ID | Timestamp | Content | User | ||
| 129682 | 2003-03-20 21:15:00 | Just were is linux going? One thing I noticed with pressf1 you get a lot of very helpful people, however with some linux groups and if this group was a international linux-help forum you would get a lot of answers like "read the flipping manual" "go to this URL and find the answer", even "what's your problem, go away" [gee windows is wonderful] sorry had to say that . While doing a Linux operating system file update from Internet, Next time I went to log onto Internet I could not log on with Kppp, never mind I quickly configured, Gnome-ppp and was back on Internet, until . . . I joined a Email linux group and junk mail came in think and fast, so I changed my email address and and . . . gnome-ppp would no longer work . So for the past few weeks I have had to go back to windows 98 (for internet) , and back to linux (to fix my problem) and back to windows 98 (for internet) , and back to linux (to fix my problem) . . and . . . . . . (a few weeks ago I would of said Windoze 98) , with the add of google I could very quickly fill my 18 gig windows partition with "how to configure linux to go on Internet", but as for "how to fix your dial up problem" is slower coming, even slower than the http://www . 404 links from google . The problem is most computer users do not wish to know what the registry does, like the drivers of most cars, all they just wish to do is get in and drive it, I don't know how many times I have gone between linux & windows in the past few weeks, trying to fix my Internet problem and trying,then trying to find a answer on Internet with windows but I am getting sick on it, So at the end of the day I can go back to my camel while window users have a solon car . Windows 98 in my 2 GHz loads in just a few seconds while Linux takes a lot longer about the same as my 486 with windows 95, Why is there so many distributions of linux all doing things differently (file structure) when it is pitting people off linux, I don't mind learning how the file structure of linux works, but there is a hung of a lot of computer users would not waste there time with it . like what file format do we use to install this program, is it a * . RPM or is it * . TAR or something else . And at the end of the day could I help my friends out when then have a different distributions of linux to learn my trusted cure screws up there variation of linux . Everything about windows is so great, my only hung up with windows is the 'red' "Fxx Exxx Exxx" I had one last night over the CDROM drive, |
E.ric (351) | ||
| 129683 | 2003-03-20 22:25:00 | >>Just were is linux going? Down to the pub to get pi**ed! I use both Windows and Linux and I like them both (but I can be a bit nerdy :p ) Maybe UnitedLinux might standardise a bit. |
Dolby Digital (160) | ||
| 129684 | 2003-03-20 23:08:00 | Howdy E.ric, As you said there are quite a few very helpful people on Press F1, but I have read a number of post that say that such and such a forum weren't very helpful. Linux forums can quite often be the same. The problem (as you call it) is that GPL linux is not based on a commercial model. So you have a large number of individuals and groups working together in their spare time to creat the programs and another group that actually works on the kernel in their spare time. RPM's (Redhat Packet Manager) is only supported by some distros, so if someone has created a new program it is useable by a larger audience if it is supplied as a tarball. If you are having a problem those people need to know which kernel you are running and what you actually did that suddenly caused the problem. They also like to know what solutions you have tried to fix the problem (after reading the manual and following the advice in the helpful links ;) ). This saves them telling you to re-invent the wheel. If your problem was caused by a kernel upgrade as your post suggests, an easy work-around is to use the old kernel when you boot until you work out where things went wrong. A lot of linux versions (Redhat, SuSE) automatically save the old kernel boot parameters for this very reason possibly as linux.old or something similar. And the reason it is slow to start. How many server daemons are you starting on boot up and do you have sitting on your system? (purely rhetorical) ;) |
Gorela (901) | ||
| 129685 | 2003-03-21 00:44:00 | Tried this local site? Been very helpful to me in the past. If you find it useful please donate a small amount to keep the site up & growing. Cheers http://www.startlinux.co.nz/ |
Stumped Badly (348) | ||
| 129686 | 2003-03-21 00:55:00 | try Lycoris Desktop/LX I understand how you felt, as I came across that sort of reception when I wanted to get samba working . Quite honestly its dead easy and can be up and running off a knoppix CD in only 2 minutes! It was just the reception of RTFM and the likes that can put you off . However, in other things, people can be very good about helping out with linux . Coming from being a doze expert in a lot of areas (certainly not all though), it was so differnt switching to linux . I love it though, and it has been worth every minute of the struggle to get it going (I wouldnt have said that during the struggle mind you ;-)) My 2cents worth anyways :-) Chilling_Silence |
Chilling_Silence (9) | ||
| 129687 | 2003-03-21 01:04:00 | Actually at the end of the day, Linux is about freedom. If you want to use it you can and you can enhance it if you want to or debug it or whatever. If you don't want to use it, thats fine too. You can revisit it in the future if you want too. I like it because there is no committee deciding whats good for me on my behalf. On the other hand Windows has cost millions and millions to develop so it should be pretty good by now. It would be no good if Microsoft had a total monopoly. |
Dolby Digital (160) | ||
| 129688 | 2003-03-21 02:22:00 | Very well said there, I wholeheartedly agree! | Chilling_Silence (9) | ||
| 129689 | 2003-03-21 08:20:00 | Hi all repliers Don't get me wrong, I have seen people post to this group, keen to get into linux and they give linux a go, and all they get is leaving linux with lots of frustration, I really like linux and take the good with the bad, One version of linux I had, it picked up the correct sound card but would not give sound, it did a excellent printer test page, but when I went to print a text page printed nothing but alphanumeric rubbish, I could only log on to internet as "root" user, and had a few other problem, When I installed Netscape on my current version, windows it did everything in one hit, when I installed Netscape on Linux, I had to setup Java, then Flash, then get the spell checker, then when I upgraded the version I had to repeat the whole thing over again, I since learnt the hard way to back up the "plugin" folder before doing the next upgrade, Also I learnt to shorten the time of your head under the bonnet keep away from static installations . As for the "what's your problem, go away" type comment from my opening posting it came from a SuSE Email group off their SuSE server, I get so cheesed off, I caned SuSE with a promise never to buy another SuSE version again and went to Mandrake 9 . While I do have a couple of pages to help someone get into linux, really would like to keep my time if have my head under the bonnet, and spend more time driving linux and adding more information to the web site . If anyone has any bright ideas to help people get into linux with less frustration, and if I can help, I would be keen to listen Below is something that might be of help . oh-bugger . net . nz/eric/linux . html" target="_blank">www . oh-bugger . net . nz |
E.ric (351) | ||
| 129690 | 2003-03-21 09:29:00 | Well i'm surprised you have had the SuSE problems E.ric! I've found it a reliable, stable, and easy to use system, with the exemption of those things i am yet to understand such as apache and getting the pure-ftp to work as i would like it. Admittantly there would be no way i would get the kppp problems as for me the internet is represented by the hole in the back of a cable-modem I'm now 90% on the Linux machine .Clueless |
Clueless (181) | ||
| 129691 | 2003-03-21 10:19:00 | Linux will never be an out of the box operating system until the big money hits it. Trouble is it is really a bit of a geeks tool designed by a geek (Linus) who already knew what he was doing as he had been working with Unix for years & just adapted Unix as a cut down version for the desktop (no GUI of course) Being open source, every wannabe geek had a go at creating their own version. None of them had the money or resources of the competitiors, so it has stayed basically a geeks tool. It's strengths have always been security & a stable platform for web & server applications. Because it's still freely downloadable & swappable, the companies still producing distros struggle to make ends meet & don't have the development resources others have. (I see Mandrakesoft are filing for bankruptcy) It will never become a serious desktop contender until big business sees it can save them some big money. By that I mean there are no comprehensive accounting & finance packages available for the average business yet (although I believe a group of CHCH geeks are working on a major app) Some banks etc are now using solely Linux but have had apps specifically written for themselves. IBM & HP were reported to be investing several million this year but that will no doubt be on server technology for their own products. Once big business puts some big money behind it, there will be cash for the development of apps available on windows now, for us joe bloggs's. There are no decent alternatives to Photoshop, windows based games, Graphical web design tools etc etc. So until there are apps to match whats available under windows, it will remain a bit of a geeks tool. They can dress up the desktops as much as they like with pretty backgrounds etc, but until the OS's are as user freindly as windows they will remain something for wannabe geeks to say "Ooh, I can use Linux" Which of course is fairly easy to do if you are willing to spend the TIME to learn what's required. As a Linux user for some years now I do appreciate the lack of sensible "plain english" help available. From my own experiences the Linux learning curve is a solitary frustrating experience, the biggest problem is that there are about 1/2 dozen ways to do everything, & 2 dozen ways to balls it up. There are websites & books coming out almost daily on the subject & I'm sure it's going to get easier. By my reckoning at least 95% of those who try linux, dump it & put it in the too hard basket after a few weeks of frustration for exactly the reasons you quote & sadly it will stay that way for some time to come. But as sure as Bush will get to Bagdad, the Tux will get to the desktop (eventually) |
Stumped Badly (348) | ||
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