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Thread ID: 32826	2003-04-29 05:53:00	OT: Saving Power	csinclair83 (200)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
139882	2003-04-29 21:28:00	> Wind farms - vast, noisy, very difficult to generate a reasonable amount of power. It will be interesting to see the results of the windmill going up on Banks Peninsula soon. They are expecting it to be highly successful.	Susan B (19)
139883	2003-04-29 21:54:00	Surely wind farms can never be the end all solution? They do the exact opposite of what is really wanted from any power gereation system; they produduce elctricity when the wind is blowing, not when demand says "let that water flow" Having siad that their unreliable and intermittant contribution can help to feed the grid, but as we don't want to see our light bulbs all blowing every time theres a good gust of wind, surely they can only be a small contributer? .Clueless	Clueless (181)
139884	2003-04-29 22:57:00	Larger scale wind farms do produce very significant volumes of electricity. They are not a panacea however, as they (like solar power) are dependent on weather. They do allow hydro to be conserved but there is no over-arching process to co-ordinate generation dispatch by energy source (its done on pricing, not suitability) There is no occurrence of "light bulbs blowing" as outputs of commercial wind turbines are fully voltage regulated.	godfather (25)
139885	2003-04-29 23:36:00	Godfather.. Does this mean that a small windfarm owned by a "local power retailer" might be an option as it would be generating some of its own power rather than purely onselling someone elses, but nothing but a pain for a power wholesaler? Forgive my ignorance when it comes to the politics/commercial structure of our electricity suppliers. .Clueless	Clueless (181)
139886	2003-04-30 00:43:00	I think the suggestion of pissing us off to the point where we will accept nuclear generators probably has some substance (anyway, I enjoy a good conspiracy theory). Personally, I don't have a problem with the nuclear option. Here in Hamilton, the river level is being kept so low that the paddle steamer that operates here hardy has enough water to float in. This is also our drinking water and it is deteriorating because the flow rate is being held back by the generators. All our major rivers are similar - we've done the hydro to death so we have no choice but to consider other options. I 'll put money on the most ardent of greenies bleating loudly when their power turns off - how are they going to run the agri-lights over the wardrobe weed patch then eh? I hear we are now importing coal from Oz to run some power stations - like we don't have any here already. I guess the problem is like a lot of other industries. The mines closed so the miners went to Oz where the work is! I don't believe that it was the current government that privatised the power generation industry, but they certainly haven't fixed it. I was just listening to the news on the radio - an item about saving more power, and then immediately after the bulletin, an advert from the local energy company telling us that electricity is the way to go and people should heat their new houses with it! Who is kidding who here - there is never going to be any push for savings coming from the people who are selling the stuff, is there? andy	andy (473)
139887	2003-04-30 01:38:00	I was just visting a freind who owns a house with a fire place with wetback to heat the hot water here in CHCH. Chch council says this will be illegal 2006.. One hopes that there will be sufficiant power generation to replace these energy sources by then? Fat chance unless something starts getting built real soon! .Clueless	Clueless (181)
139888	2003-04-30 01:50:00	> Does this mean that a small windfarm > owned by a "local power retailer" might be an option > as it would be generating some of its own power > rather than purely onselling someone elses, but > nothing but a pain for a power wholesaler? There are no power companies that do not own generation. Some have more generation available after they have satisfied their own Customers needs (Meridian, Contact, Genesis) Some have to purchase extra to suppliment their own (TrustPower) Some "brands" are not what you think (Empower is owned by Contact, Fresh Start and Bay Of Plenty Electricity are both owned by Todd, First Electric, Auckland Energy and Mercury Energy are owned by Mighty River Power, Energy Online has recently been purchased by Genesis.) In reality all Power Retailers are also Generators to some extent (Gentailers), So owning a wind farm could be attractive depending on the cost per kWh. Do not confuse Retailers with Networks (Orion, Vector, Powerco etc) as Networks have severe limitations on owning generators and the cannot sell electricity to anyone, only "convey" it on their lines for Retailers. Likewise Retailers are not allowed to own lines, but can own generation	godfather (25)
139889	2003-04-30 02:18:00	It isn't fair to blame the government either, as Poppa John said, once upon a time long long ago, in another galaxy even, we had NZED which WAS a direct govt. dept. under govt. control, but the New Right dissociated government from responsibilities and direct hands on control IN THE NAME OF EFFICIENCY. Lets all blame Max Bradford :) Where the government has been failing is in setting a lead, and using a bit of imaginative brain power. The major problem with wind power is storage. In the UK one method of load sharing was the concept of pumped storage such as at Cruachan in Scotland where during the day water from a high level lake ran water turbines ( English Electric and AEI) to generate power, Then at night the same turbines were run as pumps taking surplus electrical power from the grid to pump water from a low level lake back up to the high one. The system worked well. If suitable lakes could be found or made here, then the power generated by wind turbines could be stored. In the mean time if everyone downgraded their computers to P100s, the CPUs would only be taking a few amps, instead of the 40 -60 amps of the current whiz-bangs :) Or even everyone use 386s	Terry Porritt (14)
139890	2003-04-30 02:29:00	>In the mean time if everyone downgraded their computers to P100s, the CPUs would only be taking a few amps, instead of the 40 -60 amps of the current whiz-bangs Or even everyone use 386s NO .Clueless	Clueless (181)
139891	2003-04-30 02:31:00	Why not? Windows 3.11 and 4 MB RAM should be enough for anyone!	Terry Porritt (14)
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