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| Thread ID: 127951 | 2012-11-23 19:40:00 | Why is electricity sooo expensive? | ruup (1827) | PC World Chat |
| Post ID | Timestamp | Content | User | ||
| 1314469 | 2012-11-28 06:16:00 | Because the cost of SHW is simply too high for the energy you save. Quite a few of them don't work and the householder has not a clue. That's bull, it is so cost effective if installed when the house is being built and will pay back in 5-7 years. Less cost effective when retro fitted. But if you installed it when building what's an extra $5k on a new build next to nothing |
gary67 (56) | ||
| 1314470 | 2012-11-28 06:32:00 | That's bull, it is so cost effective if installed when the house is being built and will pay back in 5-7 years. Less cost effective when retro fitted. But if you installed it when building what's an extra $5k on a new build next to nothing Have you got one? |
ellpow (16400) | ||
| 1314471 | 2012-11-28 06:44:00 | Had until we moved house and wife used to work for the only company in NZ that is accredited to independently test them for certification, so yes I know a bit about them and how they work | gary67 (56) | ||
| 1314472 | 2012-11-28 06:49:00 | Installing solar etc is probably a good idea, but its not really very cost effective otherwise more people would be doing it. And the question of the OP is "Why is electricity so expensive" Not - how can I reduce my electricity bill. Is electricity "expensive"? Compared to what? And: Digby - you said this forum hasn't come up with facts and figures - nor a plan to reduce electricity prices - I guess I was answering how to reduce electricity prices in a household - not solving the "national" problem of bringing a whole industry's price structure down - which seems to me a daft question to ask, on par with how to reduce petrol prices, telephone charges, food prices, price of milk - why single out electricity? AND: I sell solar hot water systems. The first question everyone asks is - "what is the payback period". And then when I say 7 years (or more usually), most enquiries drop away - too long apparently. So for the 4000 systems we sell in NZ a year, out of a housing stock of 1.6 million dwellings, I would say that a very small proportion of people think it's worthwhile, but the majority do not. And the number of times I have come across systems that simply do nothing is not insignificant - sure there are systems that work, and work so well that you never have to turn the power to your cylinder on - but that is not everyone's experience. |
ellpow (16400) | ||
| 1314473 | 2012-11-28 07:24:00 | I think electricity is expensive compared to Australia which has to buy coal and transmit the power over longer distances and pay higher wages to miners and electricity workers. There are some things in NZ that I think are very dear compared to other countries, eg electricity, telecommunications and housing materials. Electricity was known as being cheap in NZ 40 years ago. Petrol is expensive in Europe. Electricity is one thing people cannot do without, especially in our cold winters. Sure if I was rich I would install solar water heating and solar panels. But most of us are not rich and just get by from week to week. If we paid less for electricity more people may be able to afford solar hot water systems. I have also campaigned against our high mobile prices (and look what happened when we got 2 degrees!) (And I did not start the thread) |
Digby (677) | ||
| 1314474 | 2012-11-28 07:51:00 | Because the cost of SHW is simply too high for the energy you save. Quite a few of them don't work and the householder has not a clue. Yes I know where you’re coming from as I’ve seen some that are absolutely useless and manage to act as a radiator and cool the water during the night and on a dull day. However, years ago I built my own and it worked brilliant. The only problem was it was in breach of the existing Plumbing Regulations :) (because it had a couple of one way valves) and the Electrical Regulations :) because it was pump circulated system via a couple of temperature sensor switches on the roofs solar panel. Naturally it hooked into a wetback in the fireplace via a parallel system also incorporating one way valves to stop any backflow. The only problem I had was it used to boil the water and I’d have water spurting all over the roof. :lol: Anyway, I’ve often thought of building another and figured I might avoid the Electrical Regulations if I used say a 12v pump and switched the 12v from the sensors. ;) So, to this end, can you suggest a 12v pump that will handle boiling water? I doesn’t need to have anything much as far as capacity goes, but it does need to handle a reasonable head, let’s say 6 metres at least. I did find ones used in Boats and Caravans but they either couldn’t handle the heat, head or duty cycle. :crying |
B.M. (505) | ||
| 1314475 | 2012-11-28 09:51:00 | Trev: looks like you are on low user rates - most users pay much more than a fixed price of 0.3750 cents per day - more like between $1 and $3 a day "daily charge". The fixed component of most people's bill doesn't come close to paying for the actual lines costs (apart from people in the King Country - not sure anywhere else), so each unit of electricity you buy actually carries around 10c/kWh or more of line charges. That number is going up significantly year on year as Transpower starts to recover the capital cost of its $4b plus investment programme currently underway. The Lines Company (out King Country way) bills customers directly for the lines component of a power bill - so they get two separate bills. To lower electricity prices: King Country people: have a look at the size of hot water cylinder element - change it down to 2kW if it is at 3kW, and put a timer on it so that it doesn't come on at dinner time (this is a way to reduce a home's "coincident peak" which is what the line charges are calculated on). Alternatively go to gas bottles and use a continuous flow gas water heater - the cheapest non-electricity option. Otherwise try a heat pump water heater that can handle the winter temperatures that the KC gets - these units can lop the peak from 2kW or 3kW down to 600W or 1kW max - which makes a significant difference on the peak demand on a house. And worth investigating if this is what sets the power price. Rest of NZ: check what is eating power and make a conscious decision on whether that is what you want to spend your money on. Water heating, space heating and ... lights... are likely to be the main culprits. I live in the King Country and get the bills you refer to and I must correct you about Hot Water Cylinders. Your Hot Water Cylinder should be on a ripple control to avoid the Transpower invoked Load Control periods so feared by people in the king country that way your hot water is not on during peak times. HOWEVER if you do not have a Time of Use, load control , demand or whatever they now like to call it meter then you are calculated on your load by a formula minus a certain percentage for the Hot Water. Now the Load Meter monitors you peak loads during the loading period over the winter months (domestic users)! The calculation is then based on the peak 6 2 hour periods over winter! What people fail to realise is that the peak loads they are experiancing are due to the Cooker Elements and not the Hot water cylinder being used during peak periods. Solution is to reduce load during those times i.e. Gas Cooking, ripple control, low energy lightbulbs. For us we got our load down to 0.59kw because of Gas cooking and not using high wattage appliances during the load control e.g. Permanantly boiling a kettle (extreme), Vacuum cleaning etc. Still live normally with PC on and TV on and maybe a fridge/freezer kicking in that can affect the load if you have two or more fridges that kick in at the same time. Like you said the rest of NZ can still control the daily charge KC customers dont have that luxury yet ironically in summer I can go nuts on power usage because the lines Bill is set over those 6 periods of winter. The Lines Company model is flawed and under investigation by the Commerce Commison and Electricity Authority. I know this because I have a complaint lodged about them with the EGCA (something most people find to difficult to do beyond moaning). Part of our complaint involves the Low User tariff exclusion for the area we live. A long and complex story basically we are not entitled to it in our area despite low energy consumption. This model however is being looked at by other regions so you complaining now? well you aint seen nothing yet. |
coldfront (15814) | ||
| 1314476 | 2012-11-28 09:54:00 | So, to this end, can you suggest a 12v pump that will handle boiling water? I doesn’t need to have anything much as far as capacity goes, but it does need to handle a reasonable head, let’s say 6 metres at least . Try these links: . altestore . com/store/Solar-Water-Heaters/Circulating-Pumps/El-Sid-Brushless-DC-Pump-for-10W-Module/p485/" target="_blank">www . altestore . com . altestore . com/mmsolar/others/DC_Circulating_Pumps_Brochure . pdf" target="_blank">www . altestore . com |
ellpow (16400) | ||
| 1314477 | 2012-11-28 17:17:00 | If we think electricity is expensive now we better be prepared for what is coming. As we all know the world's main energy resources are past the peak. Oil derived energy in the industry may need to be replaced with electric, which is without doubt going to make domestic heating hard to afford. Here (sustainablecities.org.nz) is a valuable presentation about the transition to renewable energy. |
notechyet (4479) | ||
| 1314478 | 2012-11-28 17:51:00 | If we think electricity is expensive now we better be prepared for what is coming. As we all know the world's main energy resources are past the peak. Oil derived energy in the industry may need to be replaced with electric, which is without doubt going to make domestic heating hard to afford. Here (sustainablecities.org.nz) is a valuable presentation about the transition to renewable energy. Could not see your presentation. Don't worry, with fracking technology there is now enough oil for another 200 years. |
Digby (677) | ||
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