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Thread ID: 35927	2003-07-25 23:56:00	well who won that game?!	Synchronized_Thoughts (3860)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
162914	2003-07-28 01:23:00	> Ha Ha Winston 007,my point was you have one inventor > and then you do tend to go on about it,never quite > understood the need to take vicarious credit for what > someone else has done,is because we have not done > much ourselves.? > No man is an island.	Winston001 (3612)
162915	2003-07-28 01:53:00	So now we have decided to be cryptic,keep it up 007.;)	Thomas (1820)
162916	2003-07-28 02:43:00	A little subtle for you I know. The point is that knowledge is composed of facts and intuition. Thus we understand the structure of heavy atoms and that certain humans have been able to open the intellectual doors to that knowledge. Ernest Rutherford springs to mind. In order to function as individuals most of us need to belong to a collective whole - society. Personal identity in all but the strongest individuals is a composite of the way we are treated and included by society at large,coupled with our own knowledge and intuitive interpretation of facts and impressions. Social icons (outstanding people) are a very simple way of encouraging individuals to take a pride in the group (Kiwis) to which they belong. Thus personal aspirations may be gestated and encouraged by the example of, say, Jonah Lomu. I prefer Sir Ed or Shackelton but it hardly matters. So, we admire certain people of the group (tribe if you like, eg Touregs;) ) and it enhances our wellbeing when they do well. The power of positive thinking. None of us live alone. We are all influenced by our leaders and icons. Where it can go wrong is when the admiration is blind viz Adolf Hitler, Stalin et al. But admiring Judy Bailey (no offence to her) for reading the news is so shallow that I dispair for our country. As to whether Nationalism is a good or bad thing - I don't know. Don't you ever ponder why a country which didn't exist until 1776 is now the dominant economic, cultural, and military power on the planet? Whatever their faults the Americans seem to be doing most things right. We are entering the American hegemony and maybe that is fine. The Romans ruled for 700 years and weren't all bad.	Winston001 (3612)
162917	2003-07-28 08:01:00	Nicely articulated 007,it has a sense of collectivism about it,which is what one would expect seeing as the majority are addicted to nanny state . I think this explains my point of view . Individualism and collectivism are conflicting views of the nature of humans, society and the relationship between them . Individualism holds that the individual is the primary unit of reality and the ultimate standard of value . This view does not deny that societies exist or that people benefit from living in them, but it sees society as a collection of individuals, not something over and above them . Collectivism holds that the group---the nation, the community, the proletariat, the race, etc . ---is the primary unit of reality and the ultimate standard of value . This view does not deny the reality of the individual . But ultimately, collectivism holds that one's identity is determined by the groups one interacts with, that one's identity is constituted essentially of relationships with others . Individualists see people dealing primarily with reality; other people are just one aspect of reality . Collectivists see people dealing primarily with other people; reality is dealt with through the mediator of the group; the group, not the individual, is what directly confronts reality . Individualism holds that every person is an end in himself and that no person should be sacrificed for the sake of another . Collectivism holds that the needs and goals of the individual are subordinate to those of the larger group and should be sacrificed when the collective good so requires . Individualism holds that the individual is the unit of achievement . While not denying that one person can build on the achievements of others, individualism points out that achievement goes beyond what has already been done; it is something new that is created by the individual . Collectivism, on the other hand, holds that achievement is a product of society . In this view, an individual is a temporary spokesman for the underlying, collective process of progress . And so on .	Thomas (1820)
162918	2003-07-28 10:07:00	We seem to have left the game rather in the dust. You won't get any argument from me. You have identified the key to the success of the Americans. Respect for the individual. I still reckon Fred Dagg is a worthy icon. Cheers Winston001	Winston001 (3612)
162919	2003-07-28 10:18:00	. >I still reckon Fred Dagg is a worthy icon. Now there is a real icon,as a matter of fact I have just set my missus off on the tractor with a packed lunch.	Thomas (1820)
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