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Thread ID: 128407	2012-12-18 10:23:00	Stephen Fry on copyright madness	Agent_24 (57)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1318957	2012-12-18 10:23:00	www.youtube.com www.youtube.com Older videos but I don't recall seeing them before. Pretty good I thought	Agent_24 (57)
1318958	2012-12-18 11:57:00	I like in the second one how he talks about "You wouldn't steal a handbag", as well as the black / white between good citizen vs pirate. The difference there as well, is that if you download a song / movie / TV episode, then the original is still there. If you steal a handbag, it's not duplicated and the original is lost and the owner no longer has a handbag. Then he also talks about arriving at some sort of common ground where consumers can pay a reasonable price for media, and I think the likes of the Humble Bundle has shown that if you have a good product and you don't hinder users with DRM, then they will pay. The Humble Bundle is incredibly successful! Can you imagine if buying a music album was like that, online? "Minimum purchase of $2, includes 128kbps MP3" "Pay more than $5 for 320kbps MP3" "Pay more than the average for these three bonus tracks" "Pay more than $13.37 and we'll make it available to you in MP3, M4A, WMA, OGG and FLAC" "Refer a friend and you both get high resolution artwork / photographs / wallpapers, along with a remix of the first 2 tracks, as well as instrumental versions of the songs" Something like that. How cool would that be?!	Chilling_Silence (9)
1318959	2012-12-18 18:15:00	Thank you Stephen Fry! A seemingly lone voice from within the industry, but a very sane and familiar voice to all those outside the industry, being 99.9% of the rest of the population.	Paul.Cov (425)
1318960	2012-12-18 21:16:00	The difference there as well, is that if you download a song / movie / TV episode, then the original is still there. If you steal a handbag, it's not duplicated and the original is lost and the owner no longer has a handbag. Yep , its not really theft. Its a copyright/intellectual property INFRINGEMENT. Its a civil matter & govts shouldnt need to get involved. Still that doesnt make it right or OK. On the the other hand, the consumer should have the right to return software/games , DVD's & CD's that are crap & never should have been released. 2 good songs + 8 songs just filler should never be released. If it says Greatest hits, it should be Greatest hits, not some hits & some live/accoustic/B sides . Not that long ago you could return records, tapes & cd's if you didnt like it. I have huge numbers of CD's that are so bad they never got played more than once(if that). Can I return them or get my $$ back ?? No, so now I usually download the CD (illegally) & then decide if Its worth buying. The real reason music sales have plummeted is the latest generation arnt stupid enough to by a CD on the basis of 1 good song.	1101 (13337)
1318961	2012-12-18 21:20:00	Yep , its not really theft. Its a copyright/intellectual property INFRINGEMENT. Its a civil matter & govts shouldnt need to get involved. Still that doesnt make it right or OK. I used to mutter/yell/scream this at the screen when the "you wouldn't steal a car" video was shown on DVDs or at the cinema. I'm pretty strident about copyright infringement, because, hey I make a living producing content which is readily copyable using digital technology (more fool me?), but it's not stealing.	Zara Baxter (16260)
1318962	2012-12-18 21:28:00	Yeah exactly, if you could duplicate somebody elses car for free, while still leaving them with the original, would you?	Chilling_Silence (9)
1318963	2012-12-18 21:44:00	Rubbish, you take something that's not yours without paying for it - that's theft. Anyway how do the video guys know whether or not I'd steal a car? So what if theft of data leaves the original intact, ok that's a different kind of theft than physically stealing something but it's still theft. If you download stuff illegally you know you are breaking the law so don't pussyfoot around trying to justify it as "not theft" I'm no saint, but I don't pretend it isn't stealing either. When I've downloaded something in the past that I found worthwhile I often ended up buying it, but not always. I don't DL music any more, you can hear pretty much anything on youtube to decide if you want to buy it. There are a lot of good points supoporting how much record companies etc rip off consumers and overcharge for everything, they need to get with the times and try to find a way to offer consumers what they want at a fair price. that doesn't justify stealing though. There is bullshit on both sides of the copyright argument - yes it bloody well is theft, and no you would NOT have sold all those illegal copies if people didn't download them. I have downloaded music that I would never in my life purchase just because I can, doesn't mean I would pay for it if I couldn't. I own nearly 300 CD's, anything else in my collection I'd happily delete and not have if it came to a choice between that and paying for it.	dugimodo (138)
1318964	2012-12-18 21:50:00	Rubbish, you take something that's not yours without paying for it - that's theft . So what if theft of data leaves the original intact, ok that's a different kind of theft than physically stealing something but it's still theft . If you download stuff illegally you know you are breaking the law so don't pussyfoot around trying to justify it as "not theft" . I'm no saint, but I don't pretend it isn't stealing either . When I've downloaded something in the past that I found worthwhile I often ended up buying it, but not always . I don't DL music any more, you can hear pretty much anything on youtube to decide if you want to buy it . Precisely :thumbs:	WalOne (4202)
1318965	2012-12-18 21:57:00	Precisely :thumbs: +1 . Plenty of Streaming Sites out there for Movies / TV Series too which is debatable on the legal side of things . Besides it doesn't 'stop' income for Movie 'King Pins' or Music Artists - look at The Hobbit - just pulled in 100mil from the opening weekend in the USA alone! I went to movies to see it too! Definitely some things in this world worth paying for! But no one has ever said no to a free lunch ^_^ EDIT - Chill, weren't we just talking in the weekend about 3D printing? :P Maybe we can start producing cars!	lordnoddy (3645)
1318966	2012-12-18 22:05:00	Rubbish, you take something that's not yours without paying for it - that's theft. Anyway how do the video guys know whether or not I'd steal a car? So what if theft of data leaves the original intact, ok that's a different kind of theft than physically stealing something but it's still theft. If you download stuff illegally you know you are breaking the law so don't pussyfoot around trying to justify it as "not theft" I don't think there's _any_ justification for copyright infringement. Let me be clear on that. I still don't think it's theft. Copyright infringement, except in certain areas (ie movies/music, thanks to our three strikes law) is remedied by civil action, and is not a criminal act. Copying is allowed, as long as you meet certain fair use criteria. As a copyright holder, I have control over the copies. The ability to copy is assumed and is integral to the idea of infringing use, derivative works are assumed, and usage of portions is assumed. Theft is a criminal act and has no similar "fair use" provisions. I don't have much truck with the "deprivation" angle of it, but legally, they are completely different.	Zara Baxter (16260)
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