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Thread ID: 36321	2003-08-06 04:40:00	The "Sky" thing	John Grieve (367)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
165775	2003-08-06 04:40:00	I have been trying to discover the exact laws that relate to the use of a certain piece of software with a PC and TVCard of the right model to decode and display Sky UHF channels on said PC for free. All who say "it's illegal" forget that some of us actually want to know how and why it is illegal. Now, with digital signals most overseas countries have laws stating that merely "recieving" the signal (which of course requires certain types of hardware) through illegal hardware makes the whole decoding thing illegal right from the start. However this obviously cannot apply to recieving the local sky UHF signal as every TV and video in the country can and does recieve the scrambled signal. So the next point at which laws against decoding must apply to it being illegal to decode any encrypted signals without permission of the broadcaster? If thats it can somebody point me to the relevant law making it illegal to decrypt an encrypted signal without permission. And if this is the case are the americans running echelon in this country breaking the law when they monitor all communications in NZ (some of which is no doubt encrypted)? Or is it something to do with intent to defraud in some way if the above is not the relevant law? This of course would mean that as soon as you launch the software required to decode the signal you have broken the law as your "intent" is to defraud sky? So all you quasi legal techo geeks? Why and under what specific laws is it illegal to decode the sky UHF signal without paying sky a fee? Of course all you lawyers would know so give. :D If this is all to much for PF1 take it down.	John Grieve (367)
165776	2003-08-06 05:45:00	hmmmm,and how would this infer onto wireless networks?.....such as in a case where someone used a laptop to pick up and decifer the encyted transmissions.....	metla (154)
165777	2003-08-06 06:52:00	Agreed, as far as I know you are correct, in that the law does not ban you from receiving any signal. It is against the law to divulge any information that you may have received, that was not meant for you to any "third" person. The illegal part for the Sky decoding is copyright. The copyright holder has the right to encode and decode the signal using their method, and passes on the right to Sky. They then allow subscribers to have the decoding equipment. I think this is correct. Any other lawyers out there, apart from this old "bush lawyer"?	Pheonix (280)
165778	2003-08-06 07:20:00	Its a service provided to those that pay for it. Just like bypassing your electricity, gas or water meter (for those that have them) or tapping directly into the ph system yor not entitled to it if you haven't paid for it and been connected by the authorised entity. How its carried, pipe, wire or ether, is irrelevant. Its not something that has fallen in your lap, so to speak, while wandering around the CBD with a WIFI enabled laptop, you have to actively capture the specific signal then decypt the specific signal. I think there is an Act specifically relating to Echelon and other security communications. HTH Murray P	Murray P (44)
165779	2003-08-06 08:50:00	Try the "Crimes Act" and the sections relating to theft. If I see a rich old lady resting on a park bench and her purse full of wads of cash on the bench next to her and I just go and help myself because I can, it's still theft. It's not mine to take. The same applies to services - if someone supplies a service at cost and you decide to intentionally (or even unintentionally) tap into that service and make use of the service for nothing, you are essentially thieving from the company that provides that service. It's theft. Mike.	Mike (15)
165780	2003-08-06 09:45:00	I wondered about applying copyright in some way but I do not see it as relevant to this and heres why . Sky will have signed a copyright deal with each program provider allowing a certain number of broadcasts and probably stating that Sky undertakes to protect the program providers copyrights . Skys contract with its users probably has a clause dealing with copying broadcast programs for later viewing (probably not allowed or limited in some fashion) and hooking others to your decoder outside the residence the decoder is installed which partially has copyright implications . However someone decoding the signal without skys permission has signed no contract with sky so where would any copyright signed between Sky and the program provider apply? Does merely watching copyrighted material infer acceptence of any copyright requirements exclusive from any other entitity involved in presenting the copyright material to you? What I actually think is that only the decoding program itself being illegal covers all the bases but it does not appear that this type of program is actually illegal . So we go back to the same question . What exactly is illegal? Is using such a program illegal in and of itself? Again I can find no evidence of such a law . Maybe the signal itself has protection seperate from its content and you are straight out not allowed to decode the signal but again I can find nothing resembling law that covers the sky signal on UHF or any signal in UHF . Does just broadcasting a scrambled signal have some inherent protection from those who would decode it like a property right or something? They send out the signal willy nilly to all and sundry so something must be protecting it by law surely? As to theft again I can find no specific law related to Sky UHF signals and their protection . Nobody is taking anything . The signal is there so nobody is stealing that . Its only theft if the Sky UHF encrypted signal is specifically protected or encrypted signals have specific protection . This does not appear to be the case at all however . There must be some applicable law surely? All I am after here is specific law not generalisation .	John Grieve (367)
165781	2003-08-06 11:14:00	I usume the signal will be protected by ownership rights and what ever law covers the radio spectrum . Organisations purchase, lease or rent radio spectrum . They can broadcast to all ensundry, eg, a radio/tv station or they can lease segments of it to users, eg, radio telephone, or they can sell it to subscribers, eg, Sky, Sky's intention is clear, they sell a service . They are probably covered by a number of laws, fraud, theft, pecuniary gain of some sort if you on sell it, we need a commercial lawyer to nail it down . If they caught you they might throw copyright at you as well but, I don't believe that is the main issue as its their content/product to do as they see fit with . Maybe a test case would give you the clearest answer you seek, could be fun :D . Cheer Murray P	Murray P (44)
165782	2003-08-06 11:24:00	I know this isnt answering the question, but it is very interesting that in Canada very many people have or did have "ahem" decoders for watching US programs. Apparently that is not illegal, as the programs originate from another country which has no jurisdiction over Canada.	Terry Porritt (14)
165783	2003-08-06 11:54:00	Thats the odd thing is it not . Practically everybody (including me) assumes that decoding the sky UHF signal is illegal . That implies that a "test" case has occured and it is in fact established law . I have done a fair bit of research so far here and overseas and while digital signals are widely dealt with clearly in much the same way worldwide the UHF decoding seems to vary widely as to how law is applied . Now lets get something clear . I have seen this happen and know that it is possible but I am not using it . While I am not averse to doing it I am happy to follow the law if it exists . However in my pursuit of clarification of the law we all happily accept as existing things get unclear . My searchs of govt websites do not directly bring up anything relating to a TV signal that is encrypted being decrypted directly . Ownership of the signal does not seem to cover things as the owned signal is broadcast everywhere without any attempt to control who gets it . I have not turned up any specific laws related to Sky about this either (like some sort of govt mandated protection from the evildoers) . Searching for law relating to the use of TV signal decryption programs does not turn up much . So the software appears to be legal . And Terry thats a very interesting story :D I wonder how many Aussie stations we could pull off the local sats :D shouldn't be any problem getting the right decoders in ho ho ho I am sure theres some shared law to cover it though! Anyone know? :D	John Grieve (367)
165784	2003-08-06 12:16:00	I watched the AB's vs Bok 95 World Cup final, in a sports bar in Hawaii, and the owner of the bar had no right to the signal he was intercepting . It seemed to be a standing jok at the bar that he could get you just about any sport (or any program for that matter) being broadcast in the the world . He had a whole heap of gear and gadgets, dishes, aerials and remotes for pointing the dishes, controlling the gadgets and of course the TVs . Needless to say we were very impressed when he managed to get a decent signal with about 2 minutes to go before kick off . We weren't so impressed by the result though, as the Yanks would say, we were pissed . I've also heard of a little thingy you spike into the cable before the decoder to unscramble/confuse the cable TV type decoder . But I haven't seen one or heard of them being used in NZ . Cheers Murray P	Murray P (44)
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