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Thread ID: 39182	2003-10-29 11:03:00	Bill on the future	mikebartnz (21)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
187657	2003-10-29 22:12:00	I am joking Terry, Man is a rational animal, and reality dictates that to survive, man must be rational -- by choice. Man is a being of free will. Man can choose to think, drift, or evade -- but choose he must. His thoughts determine: his character, his values, his emotions, and his actions, and so his thoughts determine his destiny. As reason is solely the attribute of an individual, and man's thinking determines his choices and actions, then each man is the master of his own destiny. The individual sovereign. Argue with that if you must.	Thomas (1820)
187658	2003-10-29 23:00:00	> As reason is solely the attribute of an individual, > and man's thinking determines his choices and > actions, then each man is the master of his own > destiny. The individual sovereign. Exactly Thomas. And like minded people tend to collect or relate, for social and personal reasons. The irony is that the collective can so easily override the individual and that's, IMO, what Bill and his mates will be relying on to get their schemes into our lives with apathy and lack of thought been their allies. A twist in the irony is, that it will take the collective will of a lot of reasoning individuals to keep the lid on this box. Cheers Murray P	Murray P (44)
187659	2003-10-29 23:06:00	Yes I knew you were joking Thomas. You remind me very much of an extreme right character, one Philip Colston on another forum, who has formidable powers of logic and an IQ up in the clouds, who has similar views to yourself, but I would say very much more extreme. In fact for a moment I thought he had suddenly appeared here under another name. He likes to talk about the world being populated by "sub-creatures of inferior intelligence", he's right of course, in fact he and you are logically correct in many respects except in the final analytical outcome where all protection of a mutually supporting 'social' society has been removed. We had an interesting " o/t discussion" that ran for a long time much to the amusement of other regulars on the rather specialised forum. I just could'nt resist it and carried the individual freedoms argument to a bitter end. I think I "won", at least he was the first to give up, and he couldnt give a solution to the problem of how an individual can preserve his individual freedoms when the chips are down and anarchy rules. His best answer was to pay for mercenaries to protect himself and his property. His best answer to what would he do if he lay bleeding to death in car accident was to offer to pay a passer by to help him. The idea of man being rational is just a joke, surely you dont really believe that? No. Ive been through all this before, so it's no use arguing with theoretical concepts divorced from reality.	Terry Porritt (14)
187660	2003-10-30 00:37:00	A quote from that link . . . . "we're working with the hardware vendors to be able to create a system so that we can boot and ensure that we're booting securely and that we can create shadowed memory where code can execute but you can't debug it . " With MS past record does this mean we have the joy of the PC crashing at bootup and not just Windows?	parry (27)
187661	2003-10-30 00:52:00	Anarchism is not a form of capitalism; anarchism is a form of collectivism, where individual rights are subject to the rule of competing gangs.	Thomas (1820)
187662	2003-10-30 01:46:00	Being such an isolated individual, I wonder where or how your friend managed to earn the money to pay for his salvation, Terry. Tax the serf's perhaps? Anarchy is an inherently unstable system that must self destruct. Tribalism, which Thomas describes, does a little better as long as it is dealing with relatively small populations. Back to topic: Parry, no doubt they will offer to debug or patch your PC for you, remotely. If your lucky they might ask first. If this thing takes off and if it is cracked, with so many, security/identity, eggs in the one basket, there could be a collapse of the internet and computing as we know it. Anarchy? Its like rolling the Politicians, Judges and Police into one entity, very dangerous. Cheers Murray P	Murray P (44)
187663	2003-10-30 02:44:00	Elliptical arguments is a trait of right wingers. I never said anarchy was a form of capitalism, you misread Thomas. 'Anarchy' or chaos if you like, is possibly just one, but a most likely end result of unrestricted freedom, because it should be fairly obvious that theory and reality are quite different, and human nature being what it is will never follow the rules, not even the theoretical reasonings of logic and philosophy from a right wing point of view (in which by the way I do not claim to be proficient). There, I said I wouldn't debate :)	Terry Porritt (14)
187664	2003-10-30 03:12:00	Nothing can escape commercialism.	agent (30)
187665	2003-10-30 03:54:00	That's right agent. For a really bad example of capitalism run riot read todays Dominion Post, page 11. So as not to be accused of coppyright infringement, I will paraphrase/summarise. American developer buys up land in Tasman Bay, Ruby Bay, 35 Km north of Nelson, is accused by the Los Angeles Times of all papers of trying to recreate south Orange County, California, to lure "the Russell Crowes of the world" to buy into it. He has recontoured the sea-side cliffs, run bulldozers through things he shouldnt, and has completely ignored the complaints of locals. There is a photo of completely despoiled terrain.	Terry Porritt (14)
187666	2003-10-30 05:27:00	You stck with this lot Terry and out with personal responsiblity. The cost of carrying out storing dangerous goods is enormous. The storage brokers costs millions of dollars. Most of the goods are very stable. They are only dangerous if you decide to eat them. The Labour government's response has been spin. Setting up panels to examine compliance costs. The business compliance panel produced a report with 162 recommendations. Minister Swain proudly announced government would implement 139 of the 162 recommendations. It sounds dramatic. The reality is very different. IRD, ACC, OSH, the Resource Management Act all get harder to comply with. Labours legislative machine is picking up pace, passing even more law. Between 1999 and 2002 the Labour government passed 221 government acts, 8 private members laws, 8 local bills and 6 private acts for a total of 243 new statutes. In the year since the election, Labour has passed 115 government acts, 2 private members bills, 4 local bills and 3 private acts for a total of 124 new statutes.	Thomas (1820)
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