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Thread ID: 129356	2013-02-20 02:34:00	Discuss: The law, moaners, being PC, and where PF1 is headed	Chilling_Silence (9)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1328900	2013-02-20 02:34:00	Alrighty guys, I'm probably opening us up for a world of pain here, but lets go over a few things. In a nutshell, there is some laws coming out (the Communications (New Media) bill) that can potentially leave Fairfax a lot more liable for some of the stuff that is said here. Basically Fairfax wanna cover their ass, and they're fully entitled to do-so. This means certain topics may have less of a "place" here on PF1, specifically topics that arise from the Chat section. We're looking at this in a positive way, with the intention of protecting the longevity and continued existence of the forums. You should look at this as a positive step forwards too. So here's the deal: 1) We don't want or expect you to be PC. Myself, Zara, and probably the other mods too, we couldn't really care less about that 2) Your rights to Freedom of Expression under the NZ Bill of Rights Act 1990 are not under siege, but this is about a refinement and covering those who would feel unjustly victimized 3) We've all had enough of threads complaining about a specific subset of the NZ populace. We all know the stats, you're preaching to the converted, it's probably best you take your crusade somewhere for fresh ears coz we're over the majority of the threads on PF1 being about that sorta thing 4) A small minority of incredibly vocal long-term members seem to like complaining about anything, just for the sake of complaining. A surprising number of members have contacted us expressing how annoying it is. We agree. 5) The actual *technical* forum itself seems fine. It’s pretty much just those who linger in the Chat forums that are causing this to be brought up Which begs the question, what are we trying to address specifically? The bill addresses what it considers harmful online communications while balancing the right to freedom of expression, and covers: Anything that discloses sensitive personal information, is threatening, intimidating or menacing, is grossly offensive, indecent or obscene, is part of a pattern of harassment, makes false allegations, or denigrates a person's colour, race, ethnicity or natural origins, religion, gender, sexual orientation or disability. Now, that last one is likely to cause the most contentious discussion, so to give you an example of where the line has been drawn for this kind of stuff in TV, and what might get the forum into trouble, you can take a look at bsa.govt.nz Naturally we don’t want to stifle the discussion / community that has developed, and we get a bit of leeway within the law because we have a history of being less PC than some other venues (what the law calls a “robust forum”), but there is going to have to be a line that’s drawn in the sand somewhere. We’re hoping a little bit of a pow-wow around the subject might mean we don’t have to play the role of supreme dictators in drawing this line on your behalf. However, we would all prefer to have to do that rather than close the forums (Even if it was just closing the Chat forum), because the last thing we want to be doing is causing a heartache for the big honchos at Fairfax that might cause them to take drastic action. On a final note, if you even think of trying to accuse us of being part of the PC-brigade, (specifically in this thread) we reserve the right to bring out the banhammer, and I've not had a good swing of it for a while, so please don't tempt me :devil Discuss!	Chilling_Silence (9)
1328901	2013-02-20 02:41:00	Where is the +1 button...	wratterus (105)
1328902	2013-02-20 02:47:00	Where is the +1 button... There's one in ever group huh? ;) That said, to be honest, it's nowhere. I can't figure out how to make the damn thing work in vBulletin4. In vb3 I could have... But they seem to have changed a few things thats sorta broken it. So it would work, but it would +1 a whole entire thread, which isn't as cool as we were hoping. Zara's gonna run it past their tech team, but it's likely to be super low priority coz there won't be any money for them to make outta it :-/ We'll see how we go. I could always end up just writing another "custom" non-G+ +1 button? But that requires a lot of effort :p	Chilling_Silence (9)
1328903	2013-02-20 02:50:00	That's OK then.... ;) +1 to your post though...probably is a change for the better, chat is a bit like the Wild West these days.	wratterus (105)
1328904	2013-02-20 02:56:00	I highly doubt anything will be done about people expressing their opinions on here. There has been quite a few things on here that have gone over the line and yet things don't change. Admittedly I have said somethings on here that shouldn't have been said at all. But who hasn't done that before. Perhaps its time to review forum rules about what can be discussed and what can't?	QW. (15883)
1328905	2013-02-20 03:06:00	Perhaps its time to review forum rules about what can be discussed and what can't? Careful, Zara might see you suggesting that ;) But in all seriousness that's a start with what we're doing here, think of this as a kind of "We've gotta add this rule to comply with law", but I like the suggestion :)	Chilling_Silence (9)
1328906	2013-02-20 03:13:00	I've never complained but I have started ignoring some threads rather than joining in and stirring it up further. There are those that seem to view any attempt to avoid offending people or to try and inject a more tolerant viewpoint as total PC madness. They'll probably take a dim view of this.	dugimodo (138)
1328907	2013-02-20 03:15:00	Sometimes there are things that tip us over, and sometimes the facts are not always true, or displayed in a fair and equal manner. If your source for outrage is a new article, chances are its part of the terrible journalism NZ is subject to with sensationalised articles revolving around a grotesque distortion of the facts. On the subject of the Maori populace, stuff/news agencies want a story. They want it to be controversial. They KNOW for a damn fact that NZers are worried about asset sales and that people are pissed off that Maori seem to just get things handed to them (in a good way) and for that very reason they will leave out some very key detail as to WHY things might be happening. No one wants a story that goes along the lines of "farmer charges $20 for people to cross his land because it would cost him in repairs to his fields etc, they want to hear a story about a grumpy west coast farmer who is charging the balls off the local school because their cross country track goes through his land. The news, for the most part. Does not contain facts or both sides of the story. On those grounds, I'd like to say all "discussion" around certain issues regarding NZ races (or any matter to be honest) should be around credible sources and actually educate as to WHY something is happening. Not just because its fair in the sense of the word, but because at the end of the day we actually learn something and understand/tolerate the issue at hand. I agree with what chill (and the various other mods) are saying here 100%, but I think there is definitely a place for such discussion. As long as it is carried out in a fashion that isn't just aimless bashing "oh yeah. that guy is a dick - definately a ****** - nobody likes him" etc etc etc I also think chill is being PC, grab your torch and pitchforks :devil	The Error Guy (14052)
1328908	2013-02-20 03:32:00	I would not like to see restrictions on what can be discussed. We are supposed to be living in a democracy and free speech is a part of that democracy. Perhaps the restrictions should be more along the lines of denigrating a particular class of people. I think that it is okay to say that you think that their beliefs are something that you do not subscribe to, but you should still be able to respect people that have an opinion that is contrary to yours. You have the right to say that you think that people with those beliefs have perhaps been mislead, but I don't think that it is okay to say that their beliefs are stupid - or words to that effect. I like to see discussion on any topic, but I think that it is wrong to put down someone's beliefs and ethics with scorn and derision. I believe that sort of thing should be clamped down on. As I have heard from the mods, as an admonishment: "play fair." I think that it is important to play fair. Respect the other person's point of view.	Roscoe (6288)
1328909	2013-02-20 03:40:00	I would imagine the help forum is good PR for Fairfax media, if the chat room was castrated, I would expect many of the help that is given to move elsewhere. Most interesting stuff is contentious, thats why people read it, and have their own views. Seems to me we went through something like this when Zara joined, and I couldn't be bothered anymore, so left....I mostly just come here now to see who's around. I would suggest you put an age barrier on the forum with perhaps a dialog pop-up if they enter that (Blah blah, Fairfax has gone all PC and is covering its ass so will not be responsible for content) sort of thing...or just neuter it and watch the participants of the slowly move away!..	SolMiester (139)
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