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Thread ID: 149897	2021-06-14 08:51:00	For your consideration.	B.M. (505)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1477827	2021-06-14 08:51:00	Yes it's another E-Mail from a mate who shares my views on this Climate Change nonsense . I haven't checked the calculations yet but hopefully some of you will . :) NZ Govt Lies and Hyperbole on Climate Change Owen Jennings Former National President of NZ Federated Farmers Yesterday Prime Minster Ardern claimed action on the Climate Commission’s recommendations was “a matter of life and death” . There is zero truth in that statement . It is outrageous and dangerous . All the evidence shows that climate related deaths – from heat and cold - are continuing to fall . The only weather events that the IPCC says show even a minor likelihood of occurring are higher rainfall in limited regions and increased drought in others . All manageable . Sea level rise can easily be mitigated if it ever becomes an issue . After 15 years can Al Gore point to even one “climate refugee” from the Pacific? Four new international airports on the Maldives?? Tuvalu bigger today than it was in 2006 when Gore lied to the world to get an Oscar . According to Ardern and her sidekick Shaw our biggest problem is agriculture . It is supposed to contribute 48% of our emissions problem – mostly burped methane . What are the known facts about methane? All methane is 0 . 00018% of the atmosphere . All ruminants contribute just 14% of the methane emissions . That means the world’s bison, giraffes, antelopes, cows, sheep together are responsible for 0 . 000000252% or . 2 of one part per million of the atmosphere . NZ has 1% of the planet’s ruminants and somehow cutting them back 15% - slaughtering 1 million cows and 4 million sheep - as the Government intends, is going to make a difference . What are those numbers in some recognisable manner? Imagine the whole atmosphere was the 12 hour, 10,000 km trip from Auckland to Los Angeles . All methane is just a fraction of the pushback at the airport – 18 metres . NZ’s contribution is 180 mm . Our required reduction is the equivalent 27 mm . Or an inch for you old buggers like me . How can seemingly intelligent people stand up and keep a straight face while telling you 27 mm of a 10,000,000 metre trip makes any difference? Ah, but you say “methane is a powerful greenhouse gas” . Is it? I can wheel in dozens of highly credible scientists, most of them “warmists” who say NZ’s interpretation of methane’s potency is overstated by 400% . That overstatement is the difference between us having to slaughter a million cows or not . It is the difference between decimating the sector that is the standout export earner and that is maintaining the remaining strength of the economy, or not . It is the difference between us slashing production with the world’s lowest carbon footprint and watching another higher “polluting” country take up the slack making a mockery of our butchering our sheep and cattle . It is the difference between us acting on only part of the Paris Accord or us responding to Part 2 that says “no measure taken to reduce emissions should limit food production” . If you want to discuss potency of greenhouse gases I give you water vapour . Take a breath . Only 1% of that air is a greenhouse gas . Of that 1%, 96% is water vapour . For every molecule of methane in your breath there are 8,000 molecules of H2O . That’s potency . On the Electromagnetic Spectrum where atmospheric radiation (ultra-violet, visible light and infrared) occurs Methane absorbs and re-emits very little radiation (heat) – almost zero . Its role is insignificant because water vapour already dominates over the entire range (over 70%) compared to Methane (less than1%) . Methane is a minnow beside water vapour . Utterly unable to impact temperature in any meaningful, measurable way . Note that agriculture’s share of the emissions reduction is away ahead of those required for fossil fuel “polluters” . That is the worst of being a small voting bloc hammered and cowered by the dirty rivers campaign, the GHG villains, the evil meat and milk producers . Spare a thought for farmers today . Just like you are attached to your cat or dog they are attached to their animals . Sending cows to be butchered is desperately heartbreaking at any time . Killing them when the logic is flawed, the science is wrong, the reasoning is faulty and the rationale is unjust increases the pain exponentially . Gaia must be appeased .	B.M. (505)
1477828	2021-06-14 10:20:00	Tuvalu bigger today than it was in 2006 when Gore lied to the world to get an Oscar . . pacific . undp . org/content/pacific/en/home/presscenter/articles/2020/tuvalu-wields-new-data-in-the-fight-against-climate-change . html" target="_blank">www . pacific . undp . org Seems not . In any case, who are you trying to convert and why do you even care? None of it will affect you, you'll be long gone . Relax, think whatever you like . . . . it won't make any difference to the future of Tuvalu or NZ for that matter . I'm not crazy about the forthcoming push to electric cars, but it won't be my problem so likewise . . . by the time it's all electric I won't be here to care .	piroska (17583)
1477829	2021-06-14 10:56:00	A great summary BM... surely all this stupidity has to end.	cowboy stu (7021)
1477830	2021-06-14 11:05:00	www.pacific.undp.org Seems not. In any case, who are you trying to convert and why do you even care? None of it will affect you, you'll be long gone. Relax, think whatever you like....it won't make any difference to the future of Tuvalu or NZ for that matter. I'm not crazy about the forthcoming push to electric cars, but it won't be my problem so likewise...by the time it's all electric I won't be here to care. I'm inclined to agree with you. None of the above will affect me, either, although from what I've seen so far it's not affecting us so much as it seems to be affecting some of the low lying islands of the Pacific. But it's not right to say I don't care. I am concerned for my children and grandchildren, but I wonder what can be done about it. Certainly a proportion of the climate change is man made, but not all of it. The Earth has been cooling and warming over the last few million years or so and I think that we are at the beginning of a new warming and we may be able to slow it down by reducing our emissions but I don't think that we can stop it. And it's not just carbon dioxide. The Ice Caps, as we all know, are melting and they are releasing stored methane which is far better at keeping the heat in than carbon dioxide. So, I'm convinced that you are right - it's not us oldies problem. And no matter where you stand - for or against - it's not going to change anything. It's happening and even if we could do anything about it, the world leaders can't agree on what to do or even if they should do something. So I would say, get on with your life, and leave the problems to the people who think they have the answers because, as Piroska says, you - and I and all of our generation - won't be here to worry about it. :waughh:	Roscoe (6288)
1477831	2021-06-14 19:28:00	The economic effect will hit us all as this government has decided that we a tiny country should do everything to mitigate it while all the big countries do nothing and to make it even worse NZ is now importing cheap Indonesian coal that burns much dirtier than our own coal for the power stations to burn and at the same time closing our mines down go figure. And now this new tax on fossil vehicles, the rich won't care and most of us can't afford an EV or nor get one that is useful. Part of my work involves getting to a lot of very remote muddy places not a single EV or hybrid can get me there.	gary67 (56)
1477832	2021-06-14 22:03:00	I am concerned for my children and grandchildren, but I wonder what can be done about it. So, I'm convinced that you are right - it's not us oldies problem. And no matter where you stand - for or against - it's not going to change anything. : And what do they think? My granddaughter seems to be a fan of electric cars. I doubt she knows much about the disadvantages, nor the process of obtaining lithium and making batteries, nor how much they cost, and the disposal of them.... But they are the ones who will decide what is done, not us old people. Personally I think a large reduction in people would do more to help, instead of continuing to cover the planet like mould.	piroska (17583)
1477833	2021-06-14 22:09:00	...... Part of my work involves getting to a lot of very remote muddy places not a single EV or hybrid can get me there. Im sorry, that type of work doesnt exist ( so it seems) . We can ALL take a bus or train , everywhere . And we can take all our tools & equipment on the bus . If you bus stop is 2 miles (or 20 miles) away from the job, then walk . Lower income (Labor voters) wont be able to afford a electric car . But why would labour care about the low income plebs . Let them eat cake . My last 3 cars have all cost under $2K , so what sort of EV will $2k get me . Most of us dont have a spare $30k for a good EV , nor $15k for a used car . Much of NZ is near broke with rent or mortgage costs. So hit them again with $15k-$40k for an Electric car. Then we ignore that Electric Cars need electricity, electricity that we burn coal to produce at current consumption. So more EV's = burn more coal (for NZ) . :banana This is what happens when 'Climate Change' becomes like a religion. If warming is True or not , it now doesnt matter . The extremists are dictating . Of course its allways OK for these warming zealots to fly around in planes to overseas junkets and overseas holidays . :mad:	1101 (13337)
1477834	2021-06-14 22:49:00	Why do govt depts buy a hybrid or electric when they cant charge them so use a diesel generator to charge the govt depts plug-in hybrid car . Its a sure sign that real world use is ignored . www.stuff.co.nz	1101 (13337)
1477835	2021-06-15 00:46:00	In any case, who are you trying to convert and why do you even care? None of it will affect you, you'll be long gone . Relax, think whatever you like . . . . it won't make any difference to the future of Tuvalu or NZ for that matter . Talk about naive, the EV BS starts 1st of July this year, and where will all the money come from? Oh yes, the ever suffering Taxpayer . :rolleyes: Then, we’ll cut food production so we have nothing to sell, so then we’ll have to borrow our way out of debt . Most of us know how well that works . As for the sea rising there is plenty of evidence to draw your attention to the fact that they are Coral Islands and they are actually sinking . Then the classic photo that circled the world a few years ago and is still going . 10948 Yes, it’s a dirty filthy Coal Fired Power station with chimneys belching Smoke and warming the planet . Well actually they are not Chimneys, they are Cooling Towers and and the Smoke is Water Vapour . :clap I would have thought the Greens credibility would have expired by now but it appears they still have some with some people . :D	B.M. (505)
1477836	2021-06-15 23:46:00	Hope what you are saying is correct B.M., plenty of evidence says you're not: Irreversible warming tipping point may have been triggered: Arctic mission chief www.straitstimes.com	zqwerty (97)
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