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Thread ID: 43373	2004-03-12 21:24:00	First try at Xandros v2	John H (8)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
222045	2004-03-13 05:15:00	Glad you like Xandros. I think I will stick with Mandrake for the moment (now if Xandros was based on RedHat and not Debian....hmmm). Of course if I accidentally found a copy of Xandros II in my letterbox, I would load it on one of my machines :D	Dolby Digital (160)
222046	2004-03-13 08:20:00	If you'd rather stick with a Redhat-based Distro, then check out Ark Linux. Its free, so no worries about forking out money for it. It doesnt include CrossOver office however :p Its a great Distro for the average Home User. Its also got Synaptic as its main package management app, so it makes life easy sorting dependancies. Chill.	Chilling_Silence (9)
222047	2004-03-14 11:09:00	Xandros does need a bit of work to make secure as trying to be like Windows it has lost a lot of it's security.	mikebartnz (21)
222048	2004-03-14 12:39:00	Oh really? Could you give us an example or two Mike? Chill.	Chilling_Silence (9)
222049	2004-03-14 13:06:00	Hi Chill I wish I could remember the site but it basically said that by making Xandros so like Windows it also made it more insecure. I have been following it's develpement since Corel had it because I thought it showed great potential. While I think making a Linux distro should be a case of making it as simple as possible for a new user I think it is a mistake to make as similar as possible to Windows. Did a hunt of all the news sites I go to and finally found it (www.theregister.co.uk)	mikebartnz (21)
222050	2004-03-14 20:40:00	That's quite an interesting review Mike.... I should really get around to installing Ark on another box sometime and check to see what it leaves open by default, seeing as Ive been singing its praises. That's something that bugs me a lot about Redhat/Fedora. Why bother enabling sendmail by default? If your end-user is going to use it, then they'll have enough brains to configure it, and enough brains to start the service on boot. I personally dont like the idea of Linux immitating Windows. That's where Ark and Xandros differ. Ark wears the Linux name proudly, wheras in that interview they suggested you compare Xandros to WindowsXP :-( Admittedly, the screenies do look quite polished :-) My 2 cents worth..... Chill.	Chilling_Silence (9)
222051	2004-03-14 20:59:00	Thanks Mike - an interesting article and a good "heads up" . However, I found it quite funny in a gallows humour kind of way . There is a fundamental problem of logic in the article . First, it says it is dangerous to let newbies loose on Xandros because it is insecure . Secondly, it says that it is too difficult for newbies to do the editing that is necessary to make it secure, and the default settings should emphasise security . So the logical conclusion from this is that prospective newby users should not use Xandros because it is insecure and it is too difficult to edit for security . XP (and presumbably earlier Microsoft OS versions) is also faulty in the view of the writer . What then is left for someone who is less computer literate? MacOS, which is fine, but it means buying new hardware . All you are left with are the other Linux distros . Now please excuse me if I am dumb, but I found that the other distros I tried are extremely secure, but they are beyond the abilities of the new user to make them usable . The exact opposite to Xandros . I will go for the less secure but usable distro every time . The nature of the questions about Linux that have been posted on this site, and the degree of root editing you have to do to make them work the way you want means that (IMHO) the other distros may be more secure, but for the average user they are extremely difficult to use effectively, even with the excellent support provided by people like Chill and Jen and others on this site, and the Linux guides available on other sites . What is the point of having a very secure environment if you can't make it work in a networking environment? Admittedly I have been using these distros on a laptop which adds some complexities (e . g I was never able to get either Mandrake 9 . 2 or Fedora to power down the lappie - I had to reboot into Windows to shut down completely - Xandros commits the crime of acting more like Doze, but it does have the options of restart or shut down; small things I know, but quite nice to have) . In the other two distros I tried, I was able to get the Linux box to access the Doze boxes on my network, but I never succeeded in giving the other boxes permission to access the Linux computer . This was a breeze with Xandros . Similarly, I was never able to see the Doze partitions on the laptop from the Linux partition . That was automatically achieved in the Xandros set up . OK, so Xandros may be an insecure environment (I have a hardware firewall, so I am not quaking in my boots at the moment), but it works the way I want it to work . Oddly, I see the ideals of the open source community as being egalitarian, but the logic of the article suggests that the first egalitarian type of distro that I have tried should be shunned even though it is easy to use for a wide range of people . Yes, the Xandros designers could make it more secure by default as the author suggests, but then it would be too difficult for new users to make it work in a network environment IMHO . There are a number of Catch 22's in the article like this . The logical conclusion of the article and my experience with the other distros is that newbies should stick with Microsoft, and Linux should be left to the computer literate, which is a sort of elitist position really . Personally, I can see this distro replacing XP for me, and I never had that confidence with the others . Oh well, the article was interesting to read, and made me think anyway . . .	John H (8)
222052	2004-03-14 23:09:00	I echo your opinions too John, there is a conflict of logic in that review . I would have been happier if the exact nature of the so-called insecurities had been spelled out . What security issues, hackers getting in, worms, viruses????? If one is behind NAT, then as far as I know, that in itself offers pretty good protection . I have found that Kerio has to be turned off to enable 'free' access across my little network, but that is no great danger, it can be turned on from time to time to see if anything is trying to 'phone' out . Whatever these security issues are, then they cannot be any greater than those that every Windows user, newbie or not, are exposed to . As you will already have seen the Xandros Networks provides security updates, though I'm not sure exactly what they are doing, I have just blindly installed them as well as kernel updates . My next project is to install MPlayer to handle media file formats not currently playable in the as installed Xandros, and then to really have a look at the Showmail email client mentioned by Gorela . This allows management of emails on the ISP server without downloading, an essential feature IMHO these days for spam and email nasty control .	Terry Porritt (14)
222053	2004-03-14 23:50:00	Thanks for your comments Terry. Regarding Kerio - you may be able to configure a rule that allows all addresses on the network to contact each other so you don't have to turn Kerio off. It is easy to do in Sygate Personal Firewall - sorry I am not familiar with Kerio. All you do in SPF is go to Advanced Rules, and Add a rule. You enter the range of IP addresses under Hosts that you want to extend permission to. You may find something similar in Kerio. I notice on the Xandros website that you can install KDE Mail (I think that is its name) if you don't like Mozilla Mail, though I understand the point you are making about Showmail. I have also downloaded and installed Gimp from the website - what a powerful proggie. John	John H (8)
222054	2004-03-15 01:34:00	> Now please excuse me if I am dumb, but I found that > the other distros I tried are extremely secure, but > they are beyond the abilities of the new user to make > them usable. The exact opposite to Xandros. I will go > for the less secure but usable distro every time. That's where Ark is a little better, it doesnt compromise the Security as much, but still gives a lot of functionality :-) > The nature of the questions about Linux that have > been posted on this site, and the degree of root > editing you have to do to make them work the way you > want means that (IMHO) the other distros may be more > secure, but for the average user they are extremely > difficult to use effectively, even with the excellent > support provided by people like Chill and Jen and > others on this site, and the Linux guides available > on other sites. What is the point of having a very > secure environment if you can't make it work in a > networking environment? Because you want it to use the BSD Motto "Secure by default". Obviously you're not going to want it _that_ secure, but secure enough that you dont have to worry about sendmail starting up each time by default. Services should be like redhat-config-services, where its easy to start andd stop services :-) > Admittedly I have been using these distros on a > laptop which adds some complexities (e.g I was never > able to get either Mandrake 9.2 or Fedora to power > down the lappie - I had to reboot into Windows to > shut down completely I had a few problems with the Gnome desktop in Redhat 8.... Had to logout then shut down. Its fine in KDE, and I believe you can do the same in GNOME too now. > Xandros commits the crime of > acting more like Doze, but it does have the options > of restart or shut down; small things I know, but > quite nice to have). Try a slightly newer distro ;-) > In the other two distros I tried, I was able to get > the Linux box to access the Doze boxes on my network, > but I never succeeded in giving the other boxes > permission to access the Linux computer. This was a > breeze with Xandros. Similarly, I was never able to > see the Doze partitions on the laptop from the Linux > partition. That was automatically achieved in the > Xandros set up. Networking via samba is something that is still coming a long way in Linux. Its not terribly difficult if you know where to go, but Ive heard Xandros has enviable networking support. > OK, so Xandros may be an insecure environment (I have > a hardware firewall, so I am not quaking in my boots > at the moment), but it works the way I want it to > work. As it should :-) > The logical conclusion of the article and my > experience with the other distros is that newbies > should stick with Microsoft, and Linux should be left > to the computer literate, which is a sort of elitist > position really. Yes, I am l33t :p </Jokes > > Personally, I can see this distro replacing XP for > me, and I never had that confidence with the others. > Oh well, the article was interesting to read, and > made me think anyway... Indeed it seems it may :-) On another note, Im not a fan of Kmail... I'd rather Mozilla Thunderbird :-) Chill.	Chilling_Silence (9)
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