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Thread ID: 43373	2004-03-12 21:24:00	First try at Xandros v2	John H (8)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
222125	2004-03-19 01:31:00	> Susan, I got carried away with the enormity of the learning curve in front of me, having first been lulled into complacency by the easy install. In other words, the honeymoon is over. :p :D > I should have said why can't a Linux program be > downloaded and installed just like a good old MS- DOS > program. Just download, unzip into a directory and > run the executable.....done :). I suppose (talking > from ignorance), that all this compiling, converting > etc, is to cope with the myriad of different Linux > flavours? I am waiting for one of the Linux gurus to explain this one also though you are probably correct about that. > I suppose my problem is I havent even read up on anything Linux yet, not even the basic commands , just using dos type commands and using / instead of \ :) OMG!! :O That really makes me feel good as I have a couple of Clearview folders stuffed full of manual and Help file printouts and notes that I have to refer to every five seconds. :p And you have been able to get away without needing any of that so far?!! :O Oh well, my excuse is that I wasn't brought up on DOS. :p Murray: Gee you really crack me up sometimes!! :D	Susan B (19)
222126	2004-03-19 01:46:00	> I should have said why can't a Linux program be > downloaded and installed just like a good old MS- DOS > program . Just download, unzip into a directory and > run the executable . . . . . done :) . I suppose (talking > from ignorance), that all this compiling, converting > etc, is to cope with the myriad of different Linux > flavours? Installing applications is an area where linux still needs some work . It can be incredibly easy (apt-get install mplayer), or far to complicated (eg compiling, or converting packages) . You really shouldnt have to resort to compiling with a desktop distro . There are cases where you can just download & run a program, provided you have all the librarys etc installed . An example is Firefox . My advice is: work with the package manager . In the long run it does save a lot of effort: - It installs & removed packages properly . - When you install an updated package it will handle cleaning up the old version . - It will usually be able to install other required libraries (dependencies) automatically . - It will avoid "installrot" . You should notice that unlike windows, after X months it won't feel like it needs a reinstall . The hard part as you have found is getting the right packages . Xandros is debian based, so you should be able to tell it to look in the _massive_ debian package library which should have everything you will need .	bmason (508)
222127	2004-03-19 02:47:00	>I should have said why can't a Linux program be downloaded and installed just like a good old MS- DOS program. Just download, unzip into a directory and run the executable.....done . I suppose (talking from ignorance), that all this compiling, converting etc, is to cope with the myriad of different Linux flavours? Linux programs can just be download and installed using a pre-compiled binary that someone has made from source themselves. RPM's are one such package. With those you simply double-click it to install the program (assuming you have met all the pre-requirements). They can be produced to be specific for the distro, for example Fedora Core 1 rpm's will have a fc1 in the file name, Mandrake will have a mdk, but most are OS non-specific. The person who produced the RPM has to cover the fact that someone using a 486 computer and someone using a Pent 4 will both need to have that same package work on their machines. So, the RPM is produced as a i386 which will cover all bases. Some RPM's will be available that have been optimised for newer machines, eg Pent 3 and above - this RPM's will have a i686 in their file name to indicate it will only work on those processors types and above. As you can see, by using a general RPM (most come as i386) you are installing extra support for a processor that you do not have, and has not been optimised for your faster processor. Therefore it will include backwards compatibility that you do not need (extra baggage). Linux has the advantage over Windows where you can install software specific for your machine in front of you (how geeky is that! :D). This is where compiling comes in. Rather than use someone else's generalised pre-compiled RPM, you can specify additional build options (if you wish) and then compile, and install the software. Other times you need to compile software yourself, is when there are no suitable pre-compiled binaries available. As bmason has already mentioned, package managers (RPM) for example, not only install software for you, it keeps track of where everything went which makes in easy to remove and update. For myself, I use a mixture of pre-compiled RPM's and compiling the software myself depending upon the program. I sometimes even build my own RPM's from source to install rather than just compiling and installing directly from source. This way I get a RPM optimised for my machine/OS, and the RPM program can keep track of this new software - best of both worlds! Hope this makes things a little clearer with the difference of using pre-compiled packages and installing from source (hopefully my understanding and explanation of this is correct - some one will correct me if not :p). I also used RPM as an example because that is the only package manager I have experience with, but the same sort of mechanisms work with other distro's package managers. Again quoting bmason, use the Xandros package manager where possible for installing software as that is what it is designed for, but don't be afraid to compile your own if necessary. I think you got off to a rough start because MPlayer requires additional packages to be install such as codecs, fonts and skins :). For most source software it is a simple matter of entering in three commands, ./configure, make, make install, and that's it - program is installed. Since you know DOS commands, you might find this of interest: Win/DOS to Linux Quick Reference (www.control-escape.com).	Jen C (20)
222128	2004-03-19 06:26:00	Thanks Jen for those explanations. I do have to admit knowing very basic Unix commands from ftp'ing from command line dos when on the old DSIR network, in the days when Windows meant Win 3, but that is a long time ago now, and decrepititus is edging nearer :)	Terry Porritt (14)
222129	2004-03-19 06:29:00	Sorry, thanks also Brett. Knowing the right words and being pointed in the right direction is half the battle as then a search or lookup can be made.	Terry Porritt (14)
222130	2004-03-19 07:06:00	> Maybe I've been a bit harsh afterall. If you need to > talk about it, you know where to come. > > Cheers Murray ;P Murray I think you ought to hop in your car and drive to Upper Hutt and sit beside Terry at his machine(s) - that is, if there is room for a second person in his playroom ! We await developments .... Cheers Tonyf	TonyF (246)
222131	2004-03-19 12:44:00	> Installing applications is an area where linux still > needs some work. It can be incredibly easy (apt-get > install mplayer), or far to complicated (eg > compiling, or converting packages). You really > shouldnt have to resort to compiling with a desktop > distro. What's wrong with that? My whole OS is compiled..... ;-) He's right though, sticking with the Distro's Package Management system can make life a lot easier. Compiling isnt that difficult to do (./configure && make && make install will do most basic apps, like Gaim, XMMS) but you need the old source files when upgrading the application. Things can get messy real easy :p > There are cases where you can just download & run a > program, provided you have all the librarys etc > installed. An example is Firefox. Ahhh.. Yes, Firefox. Its all in the way its written/compiled :-) > My advice is: work with the package manager. In the > long run it does save a lot of effort: > - It installs & removed packages properly. > - When you install an updated package it will handle > cleaning up the old version. > - It will usually be able to install other required > libraries (dependencies) automatically. > - It will avoid "installrot". You should notice that > unlike windows, after X months it won't feel like it > needs a reinstall. Too right :-) > The hard part as you have found is getting the right > packages. Google is your friend Hope this helps Chill.	Chilling_Silence (9)
222132	2004-03-20 08:58:00	> Murray I think you ought to hop in your car and drive > to Upper Hutt and sit beside Terry at his machine(s) > - that is, if there is room for a second person in > his playroom ! > We await developments .... > Cheers Tonyf I'm not sure whether that would be a wise thing to do on my part Tony :) Besides I'd probably get lost. Cheers Murray ;P	Murray P (44)
222133	2004-03-20 10:02:00	> I'm not sure whether that would be a wise thing to do > on my part Tony :) Besides I'd probably get lost. Do I deduce you might be envious about some of that test gear? I am, and I would have liked some of it to check out my last DIY amp ... Cheers T	TonyF (246)
222134	2004-03-21 02:08:00	I wouldn't have a clue what most of it was for, maybe in general terms but that's about it. If any of it could output relative humidity then I'd be on firmer footing. Anybody have some thoughts on a smallish distro (1 CD ISO) that I can run in preparation? I want something that will load to disc rather than run from CD and I guess Debian based. From my research so far, the ones that get good reviews tend to require compiling from source which is probably a bit beyond me at this stage although I'm tempted. Cheers Murray P	Murray P (44)
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