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Thread ID: 43784 2004-03-26 12:12:00 OT: what is it ¿ robsonde (120) Press F1
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225320 2004-03-27 12:32:00 Please, Terry, I as a New Zealander who has chosen to be a citizen of this country think that New Zealanders have far less reason than any other country to be insecure, given the history of endeavour, achievment and equanimity in this country`s short history. brewer (4389)
225321 2004-03-27 13:58:00 I'm chuckling because you've got your time frames going in opposite drections here, Terry.
I might have given the rising inflection=insecurity theory some credence except for two things (1) It started comparatively recently
(2) It's an "age group" thing.
Can't remember exactly WHEN it started down here in the south, but I do remember HOW.
It came with visitors from "up north" & because it was catching & the kids thought it was trendy (what teenager doesn't want to sound hip?) it spread. And once the young TV presenters caught that bug, there was no stopping it...
It was the 80's, I think (Could be corrected) and it didn't change the trad southern speech of anyone but the young.
I never knew WHERE it started & although we naturally blame those Aucklanders for everything down here (always moan about the big guy, eh), it wasn't prevalent when I lived there a few years earlier.

Before you say "all New Zealanders" again, come down & listen to the southern burr. Fortunately, the true version defies rising inflections quite well - though the TV example is synchronising speech patterns more & more.

But Manchester is quite another story. An old one, indeed - but an almost dead old one.
Dunedin now has only a couple of the true old-style department stores left. I haven't looked recently, but I guess they may still have "manchester departments." (Does Kirkaldies still call it that?)
Chainstores are more likely to say Bedding.
I doubt that many young people would recognise the word as a product today. It seems to have disappeared in the same way as " drapery stores."
I guess after that, you'll need a bit of Manchester to wipe your brow? 		Laura (43)
225322 2004-03-27 21:04:00 All very tongue in cheek Brewer and Laura. And of course you are right Laura, the rising inflection is comparatively new, but it probably did arise from a feeling of uncertainty. However it was already well established when we arrived in NZ in the 70s.

I can assure you that Manchester is alive and kicking here in the wilds of Upper Hutt, even Wellington, eg Farmers Stores talk of Manchester, the flyers that come through the letterbox are full of Manchester.

Without wanting to be disparaging, the myth of Kiwi ingenuity is really just that, a myth. We, and I say we because I'm also a paper Kiwi by choice, (which could be said to have more value than accident of birth) talk of this ingenuity because we are a small nation, and any achievement seems to come as a surprise and it stands out.
Having worked in UK and Europe in hi-tech innovative industries, this so-called ingenuity is just an everyday ocurrence. 		Terry Porritt (14)
225323 2004-03-28 02:57:00 > (2) It's an "age group" thing.
> Can't remember exactly WHEN it started down here in
> the south, but I do remember HOW.
> It came with visitors from "up north" & because it
> was catching & the kids thought it was trendy (what
> teenager doesn't want to sound hip?) it spread.

You are looking at one :p :D 		stu140103 (137)
225324 2004-03-28 04:52:00 Ah-ha. You didnt say the word "COOL" stu :) As I mentioned the dreaded word again in the last HTOTW as it applied/applies to a certain style of music, I think the next HTOTW will look at really HOT black jazz and hopefully if I can find some streaming, some really COOL stuff (I wont deign to call it jazz).

Now lets get right back to the original post.

Refering to my little "Getting Along in Spanish" booklet. it says the following:

"Note the curious inverted question and exclamation marks at the beginning of questions and exclamations. The Spanish Academy thoughtfully provided theme on the theory that one who is reading will often miss the point that he is up against a question until he gets to the end, whereupon he has to lift his voice suddenly if he reading out loud.

To make assurance doubly sure the Academy also provided written accent marks to go over words when used in a question, like ¿Dónde? (where?), and ¿Cuándo? (when?); if the word is is not used in a question the written accent does not appear. This is a little like wearing suspenders and a belt, but the Academy thought it would leave nothing to chance."

End of quote. Thus in addition to inverted question marks we also have ¡ and ! around an exclamation in Spanish.

¿Perhaps we should have a New Zealand Academy to define NZ spelling and pronunciation? :) 		Terry Porritt (14)
225325 2004-03-29 04:27:00 Since the "!" symbol is spoken as "shriek" in some programming circles, what would we call the upside-down one? "Whimper"? Graham L (2)
225326 2004-03-29 08:16:00 regardsing that rising inflection at the end of a sentence - I always thought it was a dreadful virus we caught from our cousins to the west. I heard it there long before I heard it in NZ. Perish the thought.

Jay 		j.harper (2905)
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