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Thread ID: 43932	2004-04-01 05:23:00	O/T Mac Computers in Schools	bk T (215)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
226458	2004-04-01 06:25:00	The Ministry of Education has paid for it - so the schools do get MS software for free. Apple software is also provided free. See: www.macminute.com	JohnD (509)
226459	2004-04-01 06:45:00	My kids high school is almost 100% PC with just a few Macs in the graphics department. Computer specs in any department are determined by the demands of the software they have to run, so low end users are on P500s which can be bought in bulk literally for a song (most are Compaq or IBM) and the only really top-spec boxes are in the graphics or number crunching areas. In between there are a range of spec levels, and as the software demands rise, the older computers fall out the bottom and replacements (not always new) come in at the appropriate level. It is a pyramid policy and certainly ensures that we get more bang for our bucks. There is no point in equipping a whole school with Ghz processors and bucketloads of RAM when most of that power will go to waste. Same applies to Macs, they are simply not cost effective on large scale installtions if their attributes are not needed. A screen and a keyboard are more often than not the same, no matter what lies behind them if all you are doing is mundane WP or Internet type work. The big money goes into the network making sure it is fast and reliable. backbone and main distribution legs are optical fibre. Cheers Billy 8-{)	Billy T (70)
226460	2004-04-01 06:47:00	I think the MS deal with the ministry of Ed went along the lines of sign up now and we will supply discounted sofytware for so many years. Whats in it for MS you ask? Capturing the market a la the old church saying. Last thing you need on a school system is a virus. Mac's or linux might be safer. Cheers Murray P	Murray P (44)
226461	2004-04-01 07:18:00	Some Mac models are very reasonably priced. The emac retails for around $1500 and has a built in 17 inch display Schools buying from Authorised Apple Resellers will be able to buy at a lot less than that. www.apple.co.nz	Jim B (153)
226462	2004-04-01 10:24:00	> I notice that many Primary schools in NZ are using > Mac computers . If I am not wrong, Mac computers are > much more expensive than PCs . but have you thought, that schools might be getting then cheaper then, what you can get from a store? > I also understand that > most schools (if not, all) are complaining that they > are under-funded and are having 'fund raising' > activities throughout the year . If, they are having > such a tight budget, then, why buy Mac computers > rather than PCs? Here might be some reason: 1 . Most now days students know how to use a PC, & that mean also they might know how to brake them etc . . . . ( you get what I mean) 2 . Mac's are more secure then PCs 3 . It depends on what they want to do with them, e . g . graphics work etc . . . > Is it really necessary to use Macs in Primary > schools? What are they used for? Why don’t you ask a Primary school or a school which has Mac's in there school? > I am really > puzzled . Is the Ministry doing anything about it? Or > are they aware of it, in the first place? doh, I would think so…	stu140103 (137)
226463	2004-04-01 21:09:00	I remember years and years ago in primary school, New World or Foodtown or some supermarket would give dockets away and once you collected a few thousand or something you recieved a free (or discounted mac) which would explain why they plague primary schools. They are also designed so the teacher can actually use them! At my high school, we are virtually all PC's, in fact i'm installing 100 new machines in the holidays (celeron 2.4ghz, 256mb ddr, 17" phillips monitors). Virtually the whole school (including all the classrooms) will have these computers in them... - David	DangerousDave (697)
226464	2004-04-01 22:59:00	I know of a few Primary schools in Auckland area are using iMac or eMac machines in every classroom and in the ITC suites. I really don't see the need for having Macs in "Primary Schools" considering their needs. > They are also designed so the teacher can actually > use them! Are they supposed to be for the students rather than teachers? In general terms, Macs are more expensive than PCs and since most schools (if not all) are having tight budgets, how do they justify for buying more expensive Macs? I am sure PCs can do the job for Primary schools as good as Macs. I don't think they are running any special application programs which PCs can't perform, at Primary school level. At the same time most schools (correct me if I'm wrong) are having 'fund-raising activities' all year round and year after year! It is hard to justify what they are doing considering the fact that they are Public funded schools - meaning taxers are footing the bill.	bk T (215)
226465	2004-04-02 04:49:00	>At the same time most schools (correct me if I'm wrong) are having 'fund-raising activities' all year round and year after year! It is hard to justify what they are doing considering the fact that they are Public funded schools - meaning taxers are footing the bill . Sorry BK t, but I have to take you to task there . The operations grant provided by the government (that's ewemee) is woefully inadequate to attract competent staff, or even to hire enough incompetent staff . Principals have become managers instead of educators, and School Boards have become Boards of Directors . Without external fund raising, today's kids wouldn't get a halfway decent education . And if you are talking about visible fundraising like the traditional gala days or any other activity like chocolate sales, garage sales or other 'milk the locals' ideas, they don'y cut the mustard either . Schools have to take in foreign fee-paying students, sell sponsorships or run adult education businesses on the side to get the extra money needed . If you want 10 extra teachers, you need over half a million per annum to recruit, remunerate and retain them . And all that is just to stop sliding backwards . Only the private schools with wealthy parents and even wealthier old boy or old girl benefactors can hope to provide a decent financially liquid educational environment . So, we buy secondhand ex-corporate PCs that do everything we want or need at a fraction of the cost of one Mac or two PCs, we build the high-end machines ourselves, and within our IT budget we can provide a seat at a suitable computer for every kid who needs one . Apart from the economics of it all, it's a PC & Windows world out there and Mac skills are in limited demand . I went on a Powerpoint course last year and there was only one Mac requested in a room full of PCs . That user swapped to a PC after half an hour because she found it easier to follow the tutor on a PC . And one-button mice are pretty restrictive, I can't imagine why Macs haven't extended their user interface . No doubt somebody will tell me why, or that they have . :D Cheers Billy 8-{)	Billy T (70)
226466	2004-04-02 05:27:00	Billy, I'm not disputing your points that most (if not all) schools are under-funded and the need to have fund-raising activities in order to maintain certain minimum standards. The issue here is, some Primary schools in Auckland area (have seen them personally with my own eyes) are having brand new Macs - one each in every classroom and about 20 of them in the ITC suite. I think this is hard to justify.	bk T (215)
226467	2004-04-02 05:38:00	If their teachers know Mac software, they are better off with what they know . I don't believe schools "need" computers anyway . They should be devoted to education, not "training" . Kids need to know how to do arithmetic in their heads or on paper . It's not useful for them to use computers to produce wrong answers quickly . Art needs newsprint and poster paints . Using a computer to do it means they will be able to assemble "clip art ", not make original work . It was amusing (sort of) to see the degeneration in commercial art when Letraset came out .	Graham L (2)
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