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Thread ID: 132110	2013-05-06 22:12:00	'Tap and go' cards put users at risk of fraud	Bobh (5192)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1339947	2013-05-08 21:45:00	I was wondering how you go about using a card that's linked to multiple accounts. Or are these cards only linked to one account?	gary67 (56)
1339948	2013-05-08 22:12:00	I was wondering how you go about using a card that's linked to multiple accounts. Or are these cards only linked to one account? I'd imagine you'd have to nominate a default account. But in the event it's all academic, I've had a pay/wave card for over a year, but I've yet to find a terminal I can use.	WalOne (4202)
1339949	2013-05-08 22:16:00	I've used my payWave card at the university bookshop as well as a dairy. Also tried using it at Countdown, but ASB said on Twitter that Countdown don't accept payWave with Visa Debit... Z is also in the process of rolling out payWave.	pcuser42 (130)
1339950	2013-05-09 00:32:00	Yeah there's a default account. If you don't choose one, it'll go to Cheque, unless you only have Savings, in which case.... ;) They still print the receipt all the same.	Chilling_Silence (9)
1339951	2013-05-09 02:43:00	They are one and the same thing actually. An RF signal is an alternating magnetic field (in near-field range) and in far-field it is largely an electric field. Basically the terminal powers the card when in near field and interrogates it for account details at the same time. The 'tap' is to ensure it has got close enough to be read and presumably the reader will beep to confirm. Cheers Billy 8-{) Yep I realise that Billy but are we talking Hz, KHz, MHz, GHz or what? You see normally the front end of a receiving device is tuned to a certain frequency range. If this were the case then all cards and terminals would have to operate at the same frequency. On the other hand, if the chip derived its power from any RF signal available, then it would be switched on permanently for the most part, which sort of leaves it open to exploitation. ;) I'm really struggling to get my head around how these cards work and remain safe from the undesirables. :D	B.M. (505)
1339952	2013-05-09 05:10:00	Basically they have a range of about 1-2cm, so there's most of the security in itself. Right now if somebody is within 1-2cm of your card, they can read the numbers on it. This just means you don't have to give them your card, you can keep it in your hands at all times which actually solves a lot more fraud than it opens the possibilities for.	Chilling_Silence (9)
1339953	2013-05-09 05:40:00	Yep I realise that Billy but are we talking Hz, KHz, MHz, GHz or what? You see normally the front end of a receiving device is tuned to a certain frequency range. If this were the case then all cards and terminals would have to operate at the same frequency. On the other hand, if the chip derived its power from any RF signal available, then it would be switched on permanently for the most part, which sort of leaves it open to exploitation. ;) I'm really struggling to get my head around how these cards work and remain safe from the undesirables. :D My card would remain safe because it never has any money in the account. You cant get blood out of a stone.	prefect (6291)
1339954	2013-05-09 06:19:00	My card would remain safe because it never has any money in the account. You cant get blood out of a stone.im not even allowed a card...	plod (107)
1339955	2013-05-09 11:49:00	Yep I realise that Billy but are we talking Hz, KHz, MHz, GHz or what? You see normally the front end of a receiving device is tuned to a certain frequency range. If this were the case then all cards and terminals would have to operate at the same frequency. On the other hand, if the chip derived its power from any RF signal available, then it would be switched on permanently for the most part, which sort of leaves it open to exploitation. ;) I'm really struggling to get my head around how these cards work and remain safe from the undesirables. :D My guess is that the frequency is in the GHz range, but the powering and the transactions would be separate processes. It doesn't much matter if the card is accidentally powered by random sources because the banking system technology won't be there to interrogate the chip, and as has been emphasised by others, it is a very short range device. If you are not right alongside the reader, it is not going to work. It will not be a tuned RF system, the pickup coils will probably be resonant to maximise the energy transfer, but the transaction is a data stream that may or may not need a carrier. I'd say the range is measured in centimetres, not metres, with the field strength dropping off at the inverse cube of distance, and that is a bit like falling off a cliff. Think about it; if the range was any greater, and there was a queue of customers in the vicinity of the reader, it wouldn't be able to work out who was up whom and who hadn't paid. For its reliability, it depends on close contact with the Reader and that means an operating range of a few cm max. On the bright side, a card could be killed by military radar! I was in a plane on a runway in the US a while back and had my Bose noise cancelling headphones on (this was in the days before such headphones were declared to be weapons of mass destruction) and as the radar antenna rotated, I got a loud bursts of noise in both ears, and these were not RF devices, just plain vanilla audio. I can't see these cards standing up to that treatment so they should have some failures in the US. Anyway, intercepting a card would not be all that practicable, it is not like reading a magnetic strip. The EM spectrum is awash with such signals, so personally I am relaxed about that aspect of their usage. The part I don't like is that the card can be used by any person who might find it, albeit in small bites only. In my mind it is a bit like finding a wallet full of cash, but you can probably bet that serial deductions will shut down the account before it gets beyond a few hundred dollars. Cheers Billy 8-{)	Billy T (70)
1339956	2013-05-09 11:53:00	Yep and that's partly why the Card companies don't mind, coz of the limits, so you cant order a few hundred from XYZ places and get away with it....	Chilling_Silence (9)
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