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Thread ID: 46274	2004-06-18 12:04:00	OT - Education and Careers	Winston001 (3612)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
245833	2004-06-19 08:45:00	> But my ultimate goal is to get rich, through > investment property and my own businesses (which I > have already). Just like everybody else ;-) I'm not a true believer of this, however, I just want to know where people get the stereotyped idea of "A smart person doesn't do diplomas". Although I'm not interested in them just now, I actually would be quite interested to know if there is a pattern between kids who start diplomas at around 15, and their grades at their normal school, and finally, comparing this with the ages of people who do this and leave school early. Although I know many people who have still done well after starting diploma studies, I'm just a bit concerned over the people who procrastinate and as a result, lose interest in the normal school. Also to mention, schools back in the land of Poms :p (sorry... had to say that, hey! Rugby is on tonight, I wonder who'll win) are taking a more specialised path earlier. Included in that system is about 30 + NZ schools that have opted to do the Cambridge International Examinations as opposed to the NCEA that the NZ government made up. We have been told that we're only permitted to take 4 subjects next year, English, Mathematics and two else! Hard choice I must say... As a young child at kindy, in my profile I wrote that I wanted to become a 'computer scientist' (that was what many called them back then, until they became common -engineers, and finally technicians) At that time I had never ever seen or touched a computer. God knows how I found the term, 'computer'. However, I have since given up completely. The world seems to have a great surplus of these skills now. Two career paths I think will never fade: doctors and lawyers. I do believe that a few decade down the track, psychologists will be added, due to the extra problems been created by people everyday.	~~~~~ s y ~~~~~ (2054)
245834	2004-06-19 09:17:00	Very interesting posts . I suspect that PF1 isn't the ideal place for the questions because most younger members seem to be well educated already with good prospects for tertiary education . But what are your friends/classmates aiming to do? It seems to me that we approach education from the wrong end . Dave's view is typical - get qualifications to get a job . And he's right . Ultimately we must all eat . But the pursuit of knowledge itself is a much richer reward . You can loose money later, even your career (seen any tinkers lately), but you can't forget what you learn . By all means have a career in mind but smell the roses along the way . My point is that we need to embrace education for its own sake . Learn for the sake of learning . A bit of foreign language, science, classics, psychology, arts, food technology, metalwork etc . Some of it will stick and in the very long term make life much more interesting . It will also enrich our society and have unexpected rewards in future work . I'm touched by your thoughtful comments Murray . Turning away from education is the worst choice but fortunately times have changed for the better . The quality of education and lack of focus are the current problems . Cheers Winston001	Winston001 (3612)
245835	2004-06-19 10:10:00	>I'm curious . Today you are being told to get "qualifications" and how important education is . Furthermore, the message is that you have to surf the Knowledge Wave into the future - or you'll end up in a dead-end job . >Are these the messages you and your friends are recieving? Do you believe it? What careers do you want, or expect? Yeah . . that's the kind of bollocks I had to put up with when I was college a few years back . . Now I'm part of the furniture at weltec . . essentially I have network+, A+, HDA (equivilent studies . . just gotta sit the exams) and most of a BIT, as well as most of linux+, lpi1, lpi2 and RHCE . I reckon one of the old rules still applies though: "It's not what you know but who you know" A mate who was a fellow student and workmate (we taught at weltec as well) pushed my cv in the right places and voila . . I now have a job with a large IT Solutions provider as a technical analyst getting paid in the lower $20 per hour bracket . (well, getting a 100% pass mark on my technical exam and doing well in my interview helped too) ;) Understandably, going from a $120 per week dead end job to a 4-digit per week career starting job is not a bad step for a young student such as myself . The truth about studies these days is that first year tertiary is quite often a shock, when you've got students coming out of an archaic and out-of-touch primary and secondary schooling system which is based on dependant learning: what teacher says is right . Do as teacher says . A system that, to sound like an angsty goth teen, bends young minds into closed minded conformity . Then you go to tertiary where they bend you in another direction: Independant learning . No teachers now, you have "tutors" who simply tell you what you're going to learn and how you're going to learn it . Then you go and do that . It's up to you to find the required information on the internet, textbooks and in libraries . But effectively, most 1 and 2 year courses at tertiary level are primarily designed to teach you how to learn independantly . It's when you get to third year that things start to click . It helps that at that level most of the people who just werent made out for independant learning have long since left . The problem here is a lot of people hold their qualifications in higher regard than deserved . You get a lot of tertiary "qualified" graduates thinking they're the bees knees, know it all, and the world owes them an insta-job . This is especially problematic in the IT industry where a lot of people go into the industry because "oh I'll get into computers because they pay lots of money . " The result is that the industry is saturated with tertiary "qualified" people who really do not know anything filling up jobs that could be better served by people who are in the industry because they are genuinely interested, or even passionate, about IT . A combination of qualifications and experience, as well a fallback plan should be the focus in my opinion . I do have a combination of qualifications, experience AND a fallback plan (8 years in the butcher industry . ) Giving youngins experience would be tricky in some industries such as IT where there's mission critical gear about . . . However that hasnt stopped some of my peers at work . One engineer in particular started volunteering his time helping out the admins of the IT infrastructure for a large oil company, built up some experience and quietly got qualified and now he's 21, considered a Unix guru and has just departed to england to be paid 3 times more than he was here as a Senior Systems Engineer! .	whetu (237)
245836	2004-06-19 10:11:00	My diploma was only because I wanted to make my computer knowledge mean something - and because I wanted a job - rest assured though, I'm not slacker at school as a result :D PS. Many people want to be rich but don't know how. Some people know how but can't be bothered. Those who are rich are the radical ones who don't give up - I don't plan to be in retail for much longer.	Growly (6)
245837	2004-06-19 11:05:00	> PS . Many people want to be rich but don't know how . > Some people know how but can't be bothered . Those who > are rich are the radical ones who don't give up - I > don't plan to be in retail for much longer . I once heard that every person, in his/her lifetime, has an average of 15 (or was it 11 . . no I think 15) ideas that would make them millionaires . Those of us who aren't millionaire are just "lazy" and "uncommitted" . Back to what I was talking about with the Cambridge vs . NCEA, many of my mates still have no idea as to what they are heading for at university . So, cannot choose to specialise as Cambridge makes you to . Thus, although they're amongst the top in the country, don't have a choice but to drop back to NCEA, which we all know how much many dislike . These people, I believe, are mainly made up of parents who are quite successful . Many youths with rich parents just don't care, thinking they've got the back up . It is those coming from not-so-posh backgrounds, and working class families that are usually the most hard-working and committed . If you are wondering what school I go to, it's the second to Auckland Grammar (which, suprisingly is dropping year after year . I do believe this takes us back to my point above, where their parents can afford the premium house prices within the zone, hence students don't care as much)	~~~~~ s y ~~~~~ (2054)
245838	2004-06-19 12:53:00	There is a saying: One generation to make it One generation to use it And one generation to spend it . Not a lot of families are able to continue being rich beyond 2 generations Sy . Those rich kids will be a sad sight one day . Just the natural order of things . This leads on to a bit of home-spun wisdom . When you are young and poor, you naturally want to be rich . The pursuit of money blinds us to the important things in life - health, respect, and, the love of family and friends . I still think about my OE 20 years ago . The poorest people I met, the Sudanese, were also the most generous and happiest . That was despite the war which was going on in the early 1980s . Some of the richest people I know, are also the most bitter, intolerant, and unhappy individuals you could meet . And they are completely unaware of it . Earn good money by all means, but don't be blinded in the pursuit . Cheers Winston001	Winston001 (3612)
245839	2004-06-19 17:54:00	coincidence: www.cio.com I think not!	whetu (237)
245840	2004-06-20 03:22:00	Thank you Winston . Exactly what I forgot to mention . I've heard of a similar saying, not sure exactly what it was, but was along the lines that explained that the 'rich' can't last for more than three generations . Amongst some of my mates, I can already see the money flying out their pockets . . . . But also, some people try to act rich, but in fact aren't . Don't know why . On the other hand, there are the odd ones who are super rich and well qualified, but still, remain polite and give help when the need arise . Like most people, those are the ones I like :)	~~~~~ s y ~~~~~ (2054)
245841	2004-06-20 05:02:00	> Are these the messages you and your friends are > recieving? Very much so, I look at the number of people in my year group who have gone to university, mostly because it's the done thing . After a couple of years the majority have changed courses, often more than once, or even withdrawn completely . I myself am on stint #2 of tertiary study having canned my first degree as I wasn't enjoying it . > Do you believe it? To an extent I think it is true, there is a pressing requirement in the workplace to have qualification for even seemingly menial jobs, though at the same time these employers are demanding experience which often doesn't come hand in hand . >What careers do you want, or expect? I think for the most, careers that are going to bring money have an immediate glint . Me, I'm after job satisfaction . At present I am working full-time in the IT industry - not because I want to, but because it's good money and it's something I can do well . Whilst working in IT, I am paying over $6k per year and working my ass off to complete a full-time qualification in a medical field, which ironically when I graduate (6 months to go thank God) is going to pay less than the job I am curently doing with no formal qualifications . That said, I think there is too bigger emphasis on qualifications, particularly with the number of seemingly worthless qualifications being attained by people at the moment . There are a lot of people going through training instititutes to get things like Scuba Diving qualifications amongst others that are really of little value in the real world, and are often misrepresented as having huge employment avenues, which result in little more than a hefty student loan . The same can be said for the myriad of IT training institutes cropping up - people are coming out with huge loans, and no tangible skills that can be used in an IT workplace . A recent graduate of a well-known IT course I am familiar with deleted the entire content of her D: drive because a Word document wouldn't save . Go figure .	whiskeytangofoxtrot (438)
245842	2004-06-20 06:19:00	I'm afraid I do not fit in the 'young' category. But I can tell you it was drummed into me from a very young age that an education is the only road to success. When I came out into the workforce (back in the early 80's) the workforce was saturated with graduates. So much so I started in a very low paying job just so I could gain work experience for two years. The irony was some of my school mates who left after fifth form to work as salepeople were earning great money. They drive expensive cars, bought houses and they have this aggresive and confident attitude towards work, it consumes them to reach the million dollar club. I'm now in my 40's and I realise if I had a chance to re-live my life again, I will probably still go into the same line of work I am today. Because that is where I get my work satisfaction from. So in short - it's not the qualifications - it is the career you are interested in and the effort you put into it that will determine whether you are successful in life.	nzStan (440)
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