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Thread ID: 135989	2014-01-07 02:22:00	Linux Mint a good alternative for "oldies" ??	Misty (368)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1364489	2014-01-08 06:46:00	if you want mainstream linux; use android http://www.android-x86.org/ Android is extremely common for sure but it is not "mainstream Linux"!!	johnd (85)
1364490	2014-01-08 08:03:00	All this is really a matter of opinion like buying a car. In my opinion using a version of Linux that reminds you of XP is looking the wrong way. XP belongs to 2001 - a lot has changed since then in interfaces. Most people who have ridiculed Unity have done it after a couple of hours use - you need to use it for an extended period of time then most users' ideas change. ... and it is not hard - if you can use a search engine on line you can use Unity (no more poking around in menus). +1. Shame they took away the systray.	Nick G (16709)
1364491	2014-01-08 08:27:00	In my opinion using a version of Linux that reminds you of XP is looking the wrong way. XP belongs to 2001 - a lot has changed since then in interfaces. Most people who have ridiculed Unity have done it after a couple of hours use - you need to use it for an extended period of time then most users' ideas change. ... and it is not hard - if you can use a search engine on line you can use Unity (no more poking around in menus). :D those comments are like the feeling of Déjà Vu ;) Windows 8 interface has changed from What previous versions were and all hell breaks lose, and its a failure according to many, yet Linux changes its interface and thats not do bad, just takes a bit of "getting used to and learning" - Hmmm double standards I think ;) On saying that, its also the biggest problem with Linux -- There are several different versions ( distro's) and for someone to say they are using Linux, the first questions could be "Which one", which could lead to confusion. Trying to teach could be a on going problem, you only have to look at Ubuntu over the last few editions, the changes are quite noticeable. How many mum and dad users are going to change distros, and at the same time the teaching classes have to either stay on older editions or end up doing more and more work. Either way someones going to have to do a lot of work to bring things up to speed and create a workable solution that covers most things.	wainuitech (129)
1364492	2014-01-08 12:02:00	Windows 8 interface has changed from What previous versions were and all hell breaks lose, and its a failure according to many, yet Linux changes its interface and thats not do bad, just takes a bit of "getting used to and learning" - Hmmm double standards I think ;) Not quite :D - there has been plenty of "hell" breaking loose about Gnome3 (and Unity and KDE4 before that ... and Gnome2 before that ... etc. At least there is a choice of environments. Don't like the new Gnome? - install XFCE or LXDE or Fluxbox or IceWM or whatever. Try as many as you want, remove the ones you don't like. What can you choose if you don't like the Win8 desktop? On saying that, its also the biggest problem with Linux -- There are several different versions ( distro's) and for someone to say they are using Linux, the first questions could be "Which one", which could lead to confusion. "Several" is an understatement! :) The misunderstanding is that "Linux" is an OS - it's not. It is a kernel, that when packaged with lots of other software, becomes an OS, such as Debian or Mint, or CentOS or Slackware or ... - each designed according to the needs/policies/vision of the community/company/dictator that releases it, that can also have a choice of many interfaces, that yet other groups have developed for their specific or general purposes. So, yes, it is confusing when people are running "Linux" - it makes much more sense (if describing a 'desktop system') to be running "Mint/Cinnamon" or "Debian/XFCE" etc. Being able to choose an extremely reliable and functional OS that works the way you want, made by people whose reason for doing it is not to milk you of as much of your cash as possible, is an option that some people want. To answer the OP, I would suggest Debian Stable, probably with XFCE as it's quite light for those without the latest hardware and has a familar layout (by default) for those coming from XP. It is backed by an extremely professional and proven organisation, has excellent documentation, high quality and security standards, and a 2-3 year release cycle.	fred_fish (15241)
1364493	2014-01-08 20:23:00	To answer the OP, I would suggest Debian Stable, probably with XFCE as it's quite light for those without the latest hardware and has a familar layout (by default) for those coming from XP. It is backed by an extremely professional and proven organisation, has excellent documentation, high quality and security standards, and a 2-3 year release cycle. You have to remember this is seniorNET. I keep thinking of my grandfather, he doesn't want to have to install dependencies and upgrade on a 2-3 year release cycle. He's the kind of guy who just wants to pop the disc in, have it install with minimal questions (Do I need Gnome / KDE? How the hell should he know?) and "just work". If it breaks, he's not going to read documentation, he wants to go play golf, he'll sooner leave it broken for weeks on end than read doco or reach out to online support :P	Chilling_Silence (9)
1364494	2014-01-09 01:33:00	You have to remember this is seniorNET. I keep thinking of my grandfather, he doesn't want to have to install dependencies and upgrade on a 2-3 year release cycle. He's the kind of guy who just wants to pop the disc in, have it install with minimal questions (Do I need Gnome / KDE? How the hell should he know?) and "just work". If it breaks, he's not going to read documentation, he wants to go play golf, he'll sooner leave it broken for weeks on end than read doco or reach out to online support :P I was meaning for the SeniorNET "support" person, to evaluate what might be the best to recommend to their clients and sort, in advance, which default DE to get an installer for or to recommend. Presumably the flock isn't going to be left to their own devices to install/upgrade their own old XP machines to ANY new OS without a bit of handholding - there is a big difference in the skills (and terminology) that might be required to install and configure an OS (on varying hardware) as opposed to simply using it once it is set up. Even so, a default install is little more than "pop in the disc and push enter until it's done" - your Grandad won't need to "install dependencies" (whatever you mean by that...). Regardless, the installation and setup is a one-time deal - the main requirement is that it "just works" with a minimum of fuss for the rest of the time. A "stable" distribution (where the software doesn't change for the life of the release) does that, and doesn't break, so no doc reading required, and plenty of time for golf :). As for the release cycle, Debian's dist-upgrades are extremely reliable and well documented, again, a step that may need a little guidance for those who aren't interested in the details. I really don't see it as being any different to, say, car ownership - while you CAN do all the servicing and put a new engine in yourself etc. most people aren't interested and simply want to drive it, and are happy to pay the mechanic to do the maintenance. What it comes down to is choosing the right "vehicle" that performs the tasks you want, preferably one that gets good mileage, requires minimal servicing and doesn't get broken into all the time. :)	fred_fish (15241)
1364495	2014-01-09 01:54:00	Hmmmmm Might have to start learning more about "Linux" ;) Yesterday got a call from some place in town, asking if I serviced Linux Machines ( didn't say how many but sounded like a few) - Apparently their last person as she put it "knew a little bit" but wasn't a tech, just an employee, he left just before xmas, prior to that their Tech ( who has left a while back) had set things up in such a way that no one else knew what to do, even some other place they called couldn't figure it out. Some of the machines cant install Linux, they simply refuse or come up with various errors, so they still have XP Pro. She said shes spent most of yesterday and the day before on the phone calling businesses trying to find some help :groan: I had to refuse as I don't know enough about the inner working. She said Thanks in a disappointed voice and hung up, couldn't get their number as it was blocked. Then this morning got a call from a lady, her son had removed W8 from their new laptop last year and installed Linux, ( didn't ask what version) now its gone belly up, it tries to start, gets a whole lot of writing on the screen ( her words) then simply freezes with some component not found many times ( different files I gather) . Her son who knows not much more is at a complete lose as well. In the end she said F**K this, can I remove Linux and put Windows 8 back on at least she could use that, but linux is to much trouble, to hard to use , almost impossible to find help with, even the online help you really have to understand the "lingo" used and shes not happy --- Going to collect the lappy tomorrow. Regardless, the installation and setup is a one-time deal - the main requirement is that it "just works" with a minimum of fuss for the rest of the time. Unfortunately it doesn't "just work". Having good support is a must. Finding it locally for "home users" could be another matter.	wainuitech (129)
1364496	2014-01-09 02:28:00	Hmmmmm Might have to start learning more about "Linux" ;) Yesterday got a call from some place in town, asking if I serviced Linux Machines ( didn't say how many but sounded like a few) - Apparently their last person as she put it "knew a little bit" but wasn't a tech, just an employee, he left just before xmas, prior to that their Tech ( who has left a while back) had set things up in such a way that no one else knew what to do, even some other place they called couldn't figure it out. Some of the machines cant install Linux, they simply refuse or come up with various errors, so they still have XP Pro. She said shes spent most of yesterday and the day before on the phone calling businesses trying to find some help :groan: I had to refuse as I don't know enough about the inner working. She said Thanks in a disappointed voice and hung up, couldn't get their number as it was blocked. Then this morning got a call from a lady, her son had removed W8 from their new laptop last year and installed Linux, ( didn't ask what version) now its gone belly up, it tries to start, gets a whole lot of writing on the screen ( her words) then simply freezes with some component not found many times ( different files I gather) . Her son who knows not much more is at a complete lose as well. In the end she said F**K this, can I remove Linux and put Windows 8 back on at least she could use that, but linux is to much trouble, to hard to use , almost impossible to find help with, even the online help you really have to understand the "lingo" used and shes not happy --- Going to collect the lappy tomorrow. Unfortunately it doesn't "just work".Well, yes, when Clueless Jr does a harry-hometune transplant and modifications based on a couple of youtube tut's he's watched, without a clue as to why what he is doing might be a bad idea, of course there are going to be casualties - I'm betting you have seen any number of Windows installs in a similar state for similar reasons. Having good support is a must. Finding it locally for "home users" could be another matter. Indeed. A quick query of the duck turned up a couple in Welly: www.compudoc.co.nz & www.herasystems.com (no affilliation or recommendation other than they showed up in a search). No doubt there is also some serious firepower at the "enterprise support" level in Wellington. Could be an opening there for you Wai :thumbs:	fred_fish (15241)
1364497	2014-01-09 02:39:00	PM sent Fred, I'll be honest, I don't know enough about it, I can muck it up I'm sure ;) I'm betting you have seen any number of Windows installs in a similar state for similar reasons Yep, just a few. Best ones are when Jr and friends decide to alter things saying to parents its stuffed need a new PC or full reinstall, Take a look at whats wrong press a few keys and change a couple of setting -- All going again -- Want me to give this a good going over ( service) while I'm here :D Jr & friends sulk off mumbling :lol: Remember one last year -- The lappy wasn't connecting to the internet, Jr had parents convinced the router was stuffed needed a new one. Took one look at the keyboard :rolleyes: Pressed the F12 button, (turns wireless on /Off - orange =Off, On is White or blue) and what ya know works :horrified	wainuitech (129)
1364498	2014-01-09 03:59:00	Cinnamon is the one I've had nothing but troubles with. yesterday I downloaded both the x86 & x64, tried running in a VM and get messages saying not enough resources or drivers, errrr????? the PC is more than capable of running it. In the past I've also tried earlier versions of Cinnamon on fresh installs, something always goes wrong, usually stupid messages about resources, and these are on PC's that have more than enough power (and to spare) and they run earlier versions of Ubuntu, Xp, W7, or W8 without even thinking about it. The only Linux Mint that has worked fine is Mate. That aside, I put Zorin on a VM last night, went straight in runs perfect. God knows why the others dont. Do other x64 VMs run on your Host?, i mean is the BIOS VT instruction enabled?, or on auto? edit- dowloading that Zorin, it looks a nice easy intro to Linux	SolMiester (139)
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