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Thread ID: 46917 2004-07-09 12:07:00 UPS Battery Back UP's Murray P (44) Press F1
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251124 2004-07-10 00:12:00 Thanks people, good quality info.

Just to clarify something and direct anyone interested to the correct link for the APC UPS ES 500 (www.apc.com), these things do not have battery backup on all the outlets (as thise with them will know). The one I was looking at has 5 outlets not 6 (3 backup, 2 surge, link above) and the battery backup would be handling 2 PC's and one 17" CRTthe rest would be on surge only (VxA=AV?, eg, Monotor 230V x 1.2A = 276 AV/ W??).

So with that in mind if both PC's are flat out (rare) and the monotor on I'm probably getting down to 4 or 5 minutes backup. If I'm out of the office (flat out PC's? must be my neighbourhood crackers borrowing some processing power ;) ) I would be better off getting one with auto save and shutdown and perhaps a bit more grunt although I notice Goddie is comfortable with his setup, LCD screens don't draw anything like CRT though do they, hmm, could I weedle an LCD out of the financial controller ;\ , ouch, these little cog's whirring around are starting to give me a headache.

Now, off to get my eyes tested, can see a few $$ being sucked out of my back pocket for an eyeball upgrade.

Thanks

Murray P 		Murray P (44)
251125 2004-07-10 01:00:00 A quick rule of thumb for UPS purchases Murray:

Nobody ever went back to the dealer complaining that their UPS gave them too much backup time!

I have my computer, monitor, network switch and ADSL router on the APC 420 UPS, and my print server (Old faithful) is on the 250. I consider my backup time to be marginal, and if I am outside of my office and don't hear the warning beeps then I am in deep doodoo. At some time in the near future when the CFO permits I will upgrade my office to a higher standard and pass these two to my kids as they have no protection at all beyond autosave every 2 minutes on their WP.

Battery changes are important as well. Load test every six months or so, as gel-cells can die without warning.

For a modern computer with average loads, I would look for 1000 to 1250 VA. and the higher value will let me hang my printers off it as well.

BTW, keep an eye on you email later today, I'll be sending you something.

Cheers

Billy 8-{) 		Billy T (70)
251126 2004-07-10 04:11:00 A few ideas:

It's a Good Idea to have power down warning to the computer, and software to automatically shut down . (The connection might be a problem these days since it's generally a serial connection) .

You never (John ;-) ) put a laser printer on the backed up supply . They pull a lot of power for the heater (often 400W or so), and will seriously reduce your up-time .

Voltage regulation is probably overkill these days of switchmode supplies which work from 90-260 volts . 		Graham L (2)
251127 2004-07-10 04:57:00 > You never put a laser printer on the backed up supply.
> They pull a lot of power for the heater (often 400W or so),
> and will seriously reduce your up-time.

That's no problem while the printer is on standby Graham, and the reason for having it on the UPS is so that printing can be stopped before the shutdown instead of being aborted through the power failure. Stopping a print run takes only a minute or so to accomplish, so if used in that way the up-time is not compromised. My HP1200 needs 285 watts while printing, but a whole heap less on standby.

I wouldn't add it to the load unless I had a minimum of 1000VA capacity though.

Cheers

Billy 8-{) 		Billy T (70)
251128 2004-07-10 06:00:00 >
> That UPS is amongst the ones I was looking at but I
> decided on the 500 ES due to the 2 additional outlets
> and that they are standard 3 pin sockets not the
> computer lead type .

The "non domestic" outlets I consider an advantage, peole won't be tempted to use it as a distribution board for electric drills, vacuum cleaners or the like .
>
> Was there much cost involved in getting your leads
> set up with the 320 C13 type so that you could plug
> everything in?

The leads were some I had (used to be fairly common between the system unit and the monitor)

> How did you get around the lack of outlets (4 instead
> of 6) or is that all you require with your set up?

One "backed up outlet" supplys the computer, one the monitor, and one is spare :-)
The "Filtered outlet" supplies the printer, scanner, modem (Woosh, own battery) and other perripherals via a powerstrip . Just filtered, not backed up . That is all I require .
The "backed up" sockets are all parallell, so a spike from one faulty bit of protected equpment may zap the rest . It's not just the mains that make spikes .
There are a pair of telephone sockets that give you substantial protection if you use a phone line (I don't)

> Leading on to, what sort of loading are you putting
> on it and is the 500 adequate for your needs or do
> you adapt in some way?

The monitor (Sony G420, 19" CRT)is around 130W, and the Computer(AMD XP2400, Leadtek NCR18D, 1GB ram, 2 x Seagate 80Gb 7200 rpm, cd/dvd combo, Audigy Platinum sound card, Ge4 128Mb, 8x video, tv/fm card, the usual usb gadgets, and far too many fans; this usually runs at 120 watts or so, (more if crunching for NZ Liam's PF1 distributed . net team)
It lasted for 20 minutes without the low battery light coming on, but that was when the battery was new . I don't know how much, if any, less it would be now .

> Apart from the dodgey relay, have there been any
> other issues with the unit?

An urgent early issue was putting some tape over the LOUD warning "beeper" . If the power goes off late at night, I would sooner spend my time shutting down, saving data etc . than racing to the toilet in the dark .

> Did it come with auto backup/document save before
> shutdown software, is it capable of this feature?

The software and a USB connecting cable were promised as soon as I registered as owner . They took a little over 6 months to send a serial cable and some software on CD that didn't mention Win XP .
I haven't messed with it much yet due to other problems, but co-incidentally, the fault occured just after this software and cable were installed . It had not trashed any data, so I presume it shut down gracefully . I was away, but when I got back, the electric clock was an hour and a half slow, the computer had shut down, (and didn't require a disk check on restart,) and the UPS was making a rhythmic clicking as it kept trying to power up the stand-by load offered by the monitor and computer . The battery was flat (almost) and the UPS would turn on, initialise, run on battery for a moment, discharge the battery and switch off again . The dead relay would not permit it to run on "straight through" power .

> None of my business but, did you purchase it through
> a parallel import dealer? Just wondering because you
> should not have to pay freight to get it repaired nor
> wait an unreasonable time for it to be returned to
> you . The retailer should handle all warrantee and RTM
> issues . These things are also supposed to have a
> comprehensive warrantee and insurance cover against
> data lose if the unit fails, is that just hype with
> the reality being somewhat different?

I bought the unit as new from trade-me, it had been supplied as a replacement for a called-back unit and never used . The Insurance cover became active as soon as I registered on-line with APC
It has saved my bacon a few times, and has been a completely forgotten sort of box untill the cable and software arrived . I assume the relay was used as fall back during a period when real relays were in short supply at the Singapore factory (I'm guessing) Whoever authorised the fitting of such a low grade component should be publicly and repeatedly dealt with in the appropriate manner .

> Never believe anyone asking to ask you a few simple
> questions BTW ;)

I don't ;)
>
> Cheers Murray P

It was once used as a portable 230 source to do a bit of soldering in a rather remote spot . Worked fine, but I wouldn't reccomend it as a regular occurence; I believe SLA's are not too keen on deep discharges, and respond by dropping capacity . I know they don't like getting too warm . (don't ask)

R2 		R2x1 (4628)
251129 2004-07-13 12:45:00 An update for those that expressed an interest in UPS power backups and to the that contributed their valuable knowledge . Thanks .

I ended up purchasing my original choice the APC ES 500VA . I did look at beefier alternatives in the APC, Belkin and Powerware (formerly Sola) range of UPS's + a few stragglers from othe firms . In the end I decided I would get a second unit when the additional computer was added to the mix later in the year . The ES 500VA unit has everything including auto-shutdown and data save features that I need at the moment . Purchasing a second unit later (or now for that matter) gives me greater capacity in every way for less $$ than buying a 700 to 800VA unit now .

It's a pretty neat and tidy unit with options to mount on a wall or under a desk . I've managed to get rid of one multi box and taken the opportunity to tidy up the mess of cable that lurked down there .

One question I have is, would it be ok to plug the dsl splitter on my side of the unit so that I can have the phone and router surge protected or will this move interfere with the dsl signal .

Cheers Murray P 		Murray P (44)
251130 2004-07-17 05:31:00 Sorry Murray P for off topic your thread, But This is a question I have been waiting to ask for a long time now

How do UPS plug in to your computer?, does it connect to your computer via the power supply? 		stu120404 (268)
251131 2004-07-17 06:50:00 UPS plugs into the wall, then you plug your computer into the UPS stu.

Once up and running with battery fully charged, you can check operation by pulling the power plug to the UPs (or switch off at the wall). The UPS will beep at regular intervals to let you know it is on the job, but the computer should continue as if nothing has happened.

Until the battery runs out that is.......

Cheers

Billy 8-{) 		Billy T (70)
251132 2004-07-18 03:48:00 The UPS protection for the phoneline shouldn't affect the DSL signal. Try it. :D Graham L (2)
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