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| Thread ID: 47120 | 2004-07-16 10:01:00 | Sticky: How To Get Effective Help on PF1. Comments Please. | Murray P (44) | Press F1 |
| Post ID | Timestamp | Content | User | ||
| 252815 | 2004-07-17 03:38:00 | I can't help but think you guys are somehow missing the point. 1) The Sticky and associated FAQ are not for you, they are for people with very little computer knowledge. 2) If the user-in-need has the attention span of a newt, that is probably why they have a problem. So, unless you want to hold their hand through all the basics that they have skipped or overlooked, then simply linking them back to pre-written advice is the best use of your time, and the best possible advice you can give them. 3) Helpful, focussed advice should never be abandoned just because people who don't need it tell you they don't. Should all FAQs be abandoned? Stick with it Murray Cheers Billy 8-{) :| |
Billy T (70) | ||
| 252816 | 2004-07-17 04:21:00 | I take your point Billy but are you suggesting the current wording is ok? IMHO labouring a point (no offence intended Murray) or providing multiple examples isn't going to make a newbie read it. The point of Murrays post was to seek feedback and input into a sticky post (or similar) that Press F1 newbies would/could read to make everyones lives easier. The feedback so far has been "too long" so I think we have got the point of Murray's post and in any case, shouldn't the feedback of existing members be taken on board? Why not combine a few points into one? I'm sure my hacked version could be condensed even further without losing any readability or meaning - even to a newbie. For example, how many more graphics card threads are we going to get this week? How many vacuous "my dream PC" threads are we going to get this week? Would it have been simpler for me to say "How many more graphics card or vacuous "my dream PC" threads are we going to get this week" instead? The same point gets across. But did I really need to provide any of those examples? No I didn't because I'm sure you get my point. By typing it, what I did was made you read it and wasted your and my and everyone elses time in doing so. Plus I just did it again because I've already said "I'm sure you get my point". See what I mean? I've unnecessarily laboured the point for this entire paragraph. Boringggggg. The whole paragraph could be taken out without lessening the impact or meaning of my first paragrpah (I did it again!). Furthermore I wouldn't call myself a PC newbie but I am new to Press F1 but I don't need to read 3 examples of PC OS's, ISP names and examples of what PC spec's are etc. Not all Press F1 newbies are PC newbies. My first post here was seeking help with an XP problem that I could have solved if I had a sticky post telling me to look on Google or the MS technet site. If I had come across this post for newbies in its existing format I wouldn't have got half way through it before I went and tried somewhere else. Don't get me wrong - this is a great forum - open, honest and friendly. It's a nice place to be but we don't want to bore newbies away with a verbose introduction. When I first arrived at Press F1 I did read "Bruce Buckmans rules" - couldn't Murray's suggestions be incorporated into a new version of the rules under a "suggested format" section? Murray was seeking feedback, he has done a fantastic job and should be commended accordingly, and he has got feedback. What Murray has written is far far better than this ( www.catb.org) piece of pompous claptrap that was highlighted in a post about a month ago. Keep up the good work Murray. Andrew :) |
andrew93 (249) | ||
| 252817 | 2004-07-17 05:37:00 | > Furthermore I wouldn't call myself a PC newbie but I > am new to Press F1 but I don't need to read 3 > examples of PC OS's, ISP names and examples of what > PC spec's are etc . Not all Press F1 newbies are PC > newbies . Great point . Infact I believe most people new to PressF1 are not complete newbies . Otherwise they wouldn't be here . |
~~~~~ s y ~~~~~ (2054) | ||
| 252818 | 2004-07-17 06:35:00 | Hi folks & thanks for the feedback. First, don't opologise to me if you feel your remarks are critical. It's not about me, but the content and whether it will get "my" intended message across, which incidentally includes the input requested by others. If I think your remarks are ill considered, why would I consider that to be my problem! My intent with for this version of Sticky, and the FAQ for that matter, was that they not be rules (this was eloquently pointed out to me in another thread). They are a Guideline. If they were rules they could be compressed into about 10 lines, being guides, their content requires some explanation, expansion and reinforcement. They are also written for as broad a section of audience as possible, this has necessitated some rather obviouse (to some) and laboured text, much of which will be redundent for the majority, one would hope. So I labour some points, experience tells me they need to be laboured, learn by rote is a well worn path for good reason. One of the points laboured, is for people not to worry if they can't give all the info, in other words don't feel inadequate or a goose just get it across the best you can > not rules, non intimidatory guidance < for, some, who will not know that the Start button in windows is different from the one on the front of their case. Andrew, thanks for the time and effort. Yep, I did ask for feedback and you have given that in spades, excellent. The problem with attempting a short catch all is that a proportion of people will not be reached at all, that's tuff but necessary. I do not feel that I can devalue the guidance given to the point where it becomes a summarised code of conduct but, I have made notes on a printout of the Sticky where you have made alterations, with my rationale for accepting or rejecting them. In this way I have managed to cut some cruft but still keep the intent. Not much. I think you will still be bored, quiet frankly it boors me but, then it isn't written for me and you. Lastly, the original idea was that people would check the Sticky and the FAQ's prior to posting. That is still the number one aim and must remain so for the moment. I don't actually think that that is what will happen the most often though, I think we will be linking to the Sticky more often than not to save a lot of: "Umm, what OS are you using, what program did this error happen to, what was the error message, I'm not completely sure what has happened what the problem is?" > "Hi ya, windows xp." > "Ok, thats great, can you tell me what the happened, did you get an error message, what program were you using at the time"? > "Hi ya again (note: this guy thinks he's lucked out & got the thickest expert out), it stopped when I tried to save my file" > "hmm, sounds serious dude, uhmm.. what file would that be that you were trying to save?" Seen this before haven't you, it's only halfway to getting to the problem and then it's going to be "no you get to your start up items by doing........" now that's boring. It's just because of a small lack of perception and knowledge that this happens, if we can fix one or two, why not. For the not so new, there would be some value in you reading it but more so the FAQ's (not just mine), if you still can't ask a question in a half decent fashion then I'm afraid you don't deserve to get a decent answer, cr*p in cr*p out. The odd thing is, if I think I know the answer I'll probably still attempt to help you, that's just me but maybe that is also part of the problem. Thanks again for your responses, they are being noted ;\ Cheers Murray P |
Murray P (44) | ||
| 252819 | 2004-07-17 09:07:00 | Hi ya, i do think it is way too long for me to read, but as im not a newb here, at pf1 or on a comp even though i feel like one, its not primarily aimed at me, or a lot of regular pf1 people, its aimed at new pf1 people . so it is what they need to have at there hands so to speak . and if most poeple have perused it who are on pf1 whether it be all or part of it, it has done its job well . there should be some (hopefully all but i think not) of it stick in peoples memorys and when and if they need to post for help they may remember and give some nessacary details . its aimed at PC newbs or PF newbs so Marray ya hit the spot just right . pity it wasnt there when i came to pf1 . thanxs beetle |
beetle (243) | ||
| 252820 | 2004-07-17 09:53:00 | You know what, I agree with Beetle Well said. Obviously not everybody is going to read it, but we can at least point users to it who are constantly not providing the right information. End of the day, I see this as something that might make my life as somebody who's constantly helping just that little bit easier :-) Again, Murray, Well done! |
Chilling_Silence (9) | ||
| 252821 | 2004-07-17 10:55:00 | When the letters FAQ are mentioned for the very first time, for the benefit of absolute newbies, perhaps it would be a good idea to show it as FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions). | exLL (515) | ||
| 252822 | 2004-07-17 20:20:00 | I agree with Beetle - for a newbie is does not matter how long it is - you will try and read thru it in any case - or not!!! Sarel |
sarel (2490) | ||
| 252823 | 2004-07-18 00:19:00 | IMHO no-one is going to read anything such as this when they post. How many people read the FAQ's or even use the search, when they are panicking over simple problem with their computers? It will be good to have something there, but my hunch is that things will not change. And why should they? I think its pretty good the way it is now. So what if it takes a bit of tooing and frowing to get to the crux of the matter. The only change I would like to see implimented on PressF1 is a seperate O/T area which will not push all the computer and geeky questions down the page..... |
Baldy (26) | ||
| 252824 | 2004-07-18 00:39:00 | > IMHO no-one is going to read anything such as this > when they post . How many people read the FAQ's or > even use the search, when they are panicking over > simple problem with their computers? > It will be good to have something there, but my hunch > is that things will not change . And why should they? > I think its pretty good the way it is now . So what if > it takes a bit of tooing and frowing to get to the > crux of the matter . > The only change I would like to see implimented on > PressF1 is a seperate O/T area which will not push > all the computer and geeky questions down the > page . . . . . Congratulations Baldy . Too well said . I have never ever used the search function when seeking help, only use it for advice type questions . But even then, many of the advice is outdated, e . g . motherboard options, etc . FAQ wise, I have never found what I wanted in there . The most important thing now is to get an OT area . If the FAQ can have it's own area, then why can't OT's . Too many times are posts being lost down the page because of OTs being bumped up . For example, I saw robo <bump > a thread the other day, Surely, someone must have known a solution! Looks like I'm going to go bump my own thread from yesterday . . . 0 replies so far :( |
~~~~~ s y ~~~~~ (2054) | ||
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