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Thread ID: 47251	2004-07-20 12:35:00	OT Warranty's / refunds and replacements.	beetle (243)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
253859	2004-07-20 12:35:00	just asking for a bit of clarrification on this subject... when a person buys something from a retailer or ? other shop, when it comes to warranty's, if its bust or broke it is normal practice to take it back is it not? what is the usual protocol? instant replacement ? or offer to get it fixed? or a refund? the time i have been advised from other pf1 members would be about 2 weeks for a fix it job. but are we not expecting these things to happen or are we hoping for great service and a even better product when in reality this does not always happen? if i send something back, i from now on will expect instant refund or replacement, no longer will i be sitting back waiting for a repair job to take place. is this a bad way to be? am i becoming one of those people who are likely to be adding to the worlds rubish dumps by becoming like this? what do other people expect? what is law? the legal consumer expectations of what is to happen in these instances? where can one complain too? apart from the shop itself? anyother non flaming input would be fine .... beetle	beetle (243)
253860	2004-07-20 12:44:00	Billy would be a good one to answer this.	andrew93 (249)
253861	2004-07-20 12:53:00	Its not automatic replacement unless that is the stated (or offered) condition. Many lower cost appliances are automatic replacement, but thats because they are not economic to service. If we were to consider something like a ... camera ... (lets just pretend thats what we are talking about) then it would not be reasonable to assume automatic replacement as of right (although the retailer may choose that option). If it is a parallel import, it really makes no difference apart from the NZ Agent not being responsible (the Importer is) The Consumer Guarantees Act states: "If you buy imported goods, the importer must take reasonable steps to provide repair facilities and spare parts. You can not expect a New Zealand company that makes the same brand to provide these things for imported models" "The manufacturer or importer must take reasonable steps to provide spare parts and repair facilities (a place that can fix your goods) for a reasonable time after you purchase the goods. The manufacturer or importer can contract out of this guarantee by letting you know at the time you buy the goods that repair facilities and spare parts are not available." "If the trader chooses to repair the goods, the repair must be carried out within a reasonable time. To decide what is a reasonable time, consider how long it would normally take for goods of that type to be repaired. Include the time taken for goods to be sent to and from a repairer or to get spare parts" A booklet is available here (www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz)	godfather (25)
253862	2004-07-20 13:02:00	Yes he would be, Winnie would have his finger on it too As I see it, if you have purchased goods (or services) and they do not perform, as in your case it is faulty then the shop should have the opportunity to repair or replace within a reasonable time frame (a camera for e.g. would be 10 days or so) if they can't do that then you are entitled to a refund under NZ law. It does not matter whether the item is warranted or not as it is not a warrantee issue as such. It is the retailer responsibility not the importers or manufacturer to put things right, they can then claim from the importer or manufacturer if they so wish. It does not matter what deals are offered or made, as long as the goods are sold as new and working condition, they should be in that condition for the expected life of the item barring normal wear and tear. In your circumstances beetle, the 8 or 9 weeks it has taken these people to come up with a no result, an if but or maybe, is unacceptable. Ministry Of Consumer Affairs (http://www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz/) BTW, this is for consumers not businesses. Cheers Murray P	Murray P (44)
253863	2004-07-20 13:18:00	Thanxs . Goddie your link - which is adobe? makes my comp crash so cant check it out . . . MP thank you, clears things a little more for me, so i should do what then? they did say there is a possibility it is or will be back in the country by the weekend . they cannot at this point tell me where it is . . . . . . if got there or is fixed? or anything . and the person i talked to cannot offer me a replacement or refund at that stage (Monday 19th July) as it is management or some such thing to order that, only thing i did get was she will ring this week for confirmation ??? if the camera is in the shipment . . . . what would others recomend i do? wait a few more weeks??? or jump up and down ? i really didnt need this to add to current tensions in my house . thanxs all, much appreicate the help . beetle	beetle (243)
253864	2004-07-20 13:33:00	Ask to speak to management, if she doesn't have authority . It's sounds suspiciously like a scripted rebuff for unhappy customers, probably has a screen full of lines for various occasions . If she will not let you through to someone with the authority or says they are out ask for the next one up the food chain (begs the question what they are doing in customer services) . If they are all unavailable then let them know you'll be making an official complaint . If they genuinely can not give you the answers it is their problem, as it has and should be right from the start, not yours as they are attempting to make it . Just slightly OT . There are difficulties in any business or industry you care to choose, these people are in the business of selling goods . If they can't or will not accept the standards of the industry then they deserve to be out of it with a thump . Cheers Murray P	Murray P (44)
253865	2004-07-20 22:20:00	The key issue here beetle is the timeliness of the resolution of the consumer's problem . That has to be approached on a case by case basis, as some repairs/replacements can take an extended period for logical and acceptable reasons . However, in relation to a camera, the seller should be able to have it repaired or replaced within 2-3 weeks maximum . You are not obliged to wait while they send it overseas for "assessment," repair or any other procedure . This is particularly applicable if the fault occurs within weeks of purchase . A little more tolerance might be needed after 8-9 months, and more again if you are claiming after the formal warranty has expired on the grounds of inadequate service life expectancy . One of my business activities is a Consumer Services Consultancy in the form of an advisory and advocacy service . I work for either side of the argument, assisting sellers resist unreasonable or irrational demands, or helping consumers resolve problems with suppliers etc through to Disputes Tribunal stage if necessary . I don't recall how you purchased the camera, but if it was mail order, clearly you wouldn't have a local point of contact operating as the retailer . This would complicate matters because all pressure must be applied to the point of sale . In this instance I would be arguing for repair, replacement or full refund in 2-3 weeks maximum, but might have to allow a little tolerance depending on the circumstances . I assume the seller is contactable by telephone because if not, that would be a bad sign and mean that resolution might become a tedious process . You could contact the importer/agent here but if it was a parallel import thay may not be too willing to help as they don't have access to the faulty camera . For low value items some agents will replace regardless to preserve the parent company's good name in the local market, but that is a rarity in my experience . A phone call to Consumer Mag or Consumer Affairs may find out whether the supplier is a known problem, and they may even make a phone call on your behalf, but don't count on it . The best approach is arrange an appointment then front up to the seller's premises and discuss it face to face . This approach works well for me, but if you can't do that a calm and rational discussion on the phone is the only practicable alternative . At some point (depending on a lot of circumstances individual to each case) you have the right to repudiate the sale and get your money back, but if they refuse you can only go to the Disputes Tribunal . Could you tell us a little more about the contact you have had with the seller? I haven't time right now to go back into your previous thread to research all that so a summary of the story so far would be helpful . I assume you have been diarying all contacts? Rule No . 1: Assume the worst, then document everything . Record phone conversations if possible, but it is advisable to tell them you are recording . Play that one by ear though . If they are antagonistic I'd record without advising, and fight that fight later . Cheers Billy 8-{)	Billy T (70)
253866	2004-07-21 00:07:00	All of the above is good and accurate advice . By the way Beetle, do you not have Adobe Reader 6? If not, get it from Adobe . com - free . Your patience Beetle is yet another indication of how decent a person you are . In this case you are being shabbily treated . The delay is unreasonable . Your experience is a timely reminder of the hazards of buying at a distance . As I recall, you would need to go to Auckland to confront the retailer . It would all be so much easier if you could go down the street to a shop in Wanganui . Metla is on a high at the moment . He doesn't suffer fools lightly and might relish the chance to go for a drive and earbash somebody while you settle Mrs Metla back into the family home . Just a thought . :D	Winston001 (3612)
253867	2004-07-21 02:21:00	hi ya . well to clear some things up . we bought over the phone, ordered direct through them, paid by cheque . had it for not sure how many weeks, but by june they had it back in there posession to fix, replace or refund . we have been on the phone i would say weekly, not recording actual details, but have a record thanxs to computer - pabax phone calls when and who to . yes i have been patient, have a very busy stressful personal life at the moment so up till now camera has not been the priority . Hubby is keen to go and confront them, but have been unable to do this for reasons beyond our control . frustration is an understatement, and brain logistics arent working either . my patience level is almost non existent, and there is a level of despair at our house that is diffficult to diminish at the moment . and if i ring these people at this time, i do not think the conversation will be polite and met the needs i feel need to be met . i feel ripped off and unable to get justice at tis point . and also i do have adobe 6 but it cause's my system to crash whenever i use it or open a page in adobe . rant, grizzle over beetle	beetle (243)
253868	2004-07-21 02:44:00	Priorities Beet. The family situation is more important and deserving of your attention than a camera. You can sort that out later. My view is that you have waited long enough. Go to your local Disputes Tribunal (District Court) and file a claim against the retailer for a refund. Then put it out of your mind. My guess is the camera or a replacement will turn up immediately. But family first. Good luck.	Winston001 (3612)
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