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| Thread ID: 48084 | 2004-08-13 12:34:00 | Off Topic: Telecom is cool. | Growly (6) | Press F1 |
| Post ID | Timestamp | Content | User | ||
| 261354 | 2004-08-15 22:56:00 | > you should have been around > in the days of the NZ Post Office when competition > didn't exist and rules, regulations and regional > engineers governed the industry. You got what you > were given, you waited the statutory minimum of 6 > weeks and you said thank you. hear hear - getting a phone connected was a major under the post office days > And we have bailed out BNZ, Air New Zealand and to a > degree the railways which Michael Fay and company > kindly bought off us as well as negotiating the deal for > the Govt of the day. before anyone starts praising Fay or Richwhite, I recommend they read this article (www.nzherald.co.nz) from the NZ Herald from a few years ago - it helps put into perspective exactly what they have done for this country |
andrew93 (249) | ||
| 261355 | 2004-08-15 23:34:00 | Raymondo said: >I don't like it but I understand it . And it's not confined to Telecom . Power companies do it . Supermarkets do it . I don't get ulcers about it any more . I have resisted getting involved in this thread, but I can't help it . "I don't like it but I understand it" - here is a list of things we don't like, but can understand: facism, rape, murder, domestic violence, child abuse, theft, blackmail, usury etc etc . . . Understanding something does not make it right, but you can draw the inference from this statement that Telecom's business practices and price gouging are OK because we understand them - particularly the greed that underpins them . Ethics and moral principles should be the guide, rather than understanding . Ethics should apply in business as well as everywhere else in life . Just because you have the monopolistic power to bleed the community dry to feed the greed of the executives and shareholders does not mean it is right . Monopolisitic practices, obscene managerial salaries, and out of control profits in telecommunications and power supply are the legacy of the Douglas government of the mid 1980's and their heirs and successors . I too do not want to go back to Muldoon's day, but we are in a very dangerous socio economic environment when the infrastructure is controlled by people whose only business ethic is self interest . Unlike Growly, I do not think that Telecom is cool . John H |
John H (8) | ||
| 261356 | 2004-08-15 23:48:00 | Very well said John. Cheers Murray P |
Murray P (44) | ||
| 261357 | 2004-08-15 23:55:00 | If the NZ Post Office was still running teleco, there would be NO internet in NZ | Baldy (26) | ||
| 261358 | 2004-08-16 01:40:00 | Easily said hard to prove. | mikebartnz (21) | ||
| 261359 | 2004-08-16 03:40:00 | > If the NZ Post Office was still running teleco, there would be NO internet in NZ :^O :^O So true. Helen Clark was on the radio this morning and people were allowed to ring up and put questions to the PM. I felt like asking her what was up with NZ's third world broadband, and why Telecom was allowed to continue in their monopolistic business practices. Wonder what she would have said. Unfortunately I was late for Tec already. |
kiki (762) | ||
| 261360 | 2004-08-16 05:02:00 | Way to go John . The pity is that ethics and moral standards are not taught in schools or even by many parents anymore . However I think you take Raymondo's post too far . He is saying he understands why a business (Telecom) charges what it can . To maximise profit . All businesses do . It is logical . Individually we all try to earn the highest hourly rate . In other words, maximise profit . Why would any business do it differently? Rape, murder, child abuse etc are not logical . And are unlawful . The sort of monopolistic behaviour we all abhor from the likes of Telecom, is a problem for every economy . Governments deal with it through laws, such as establishing the Commerce Commission . Sometimes actions taken are ineffective or bumbling but we do not live in a perfect world . |
Winston001 (3612) | ||
| 261361 | 2004-08-16 05:40:00 | I agree with most of what you say Winston001. However, I was arguing that understanding why people and organisations behave in certain ways should not lead to acceptance of their behaviour, and I thought Raymondo was implying that he accepted Telecom's behaviour because he understood it. I may be wrong about what he was getting at. I accept that what they do is logical, and unfortunately those who are in power in our legislature etc accept that logic and do nothing significant to impact on it. Witness Labour being no better on power supply than National - I simply assumed at the last election that Bradford's reforms would be reversed by the people who opposed them when Bradford introduced them, but Labour's apologist has done precisely nothing except cost us more. Witness the witless commission and minister backing down on unbundling the local loop to general amazement from everyone except Telecom. Finally, rape, murder, child abuse etc are in fact logical if you look at them from the point of view of the perpetrator - they are the logical outcome of the unequal distribution of power and control. The same logic that is followed by Telecom's and the power supply and lines companies' business practice etc. They do it because they can and they get more goodies out of it... I agree it is an imperfect world, and as I am now 59, I feel I am running out of time to see the world improved! I just feel that you have to keep fighting people who abuse their power for their own self interest. I know, I am a beached socialist whale, but you have to rely on some ethical base, or we are lost. |
John H (8) | ||
| 261362 | 2004-08-16 05:48:00 | There are many things that I don't understand (rape, child abuse and the like are among them) but one thing in particular that mystifies me is the way in which to simply mention Telecom on PF1 can raise the hackles and stir the passions . I assumed that the discussion was confined to Telecom, their business practices, the services they provide and the costs that we incur . I didn't expect it to drift into areas that have the potential to become personal and inflammatory and I am opting out . But before I abandon the discussion I would like to offer one more thought . Telecom can viewed from many perspectives . A techo fixated by cutting edge technology may well lament the access to and quality of our current broadband services . A customer faced with high monthly bills may blame monopolistic business practices and predatory pricing for the lack of competiton that could bring prices down . A Telecom employee probably gives thanks for a work environment that provides opportunities for promotion, job security and a good salary . A superannuitant with money invested in superannuation funds is grateful that strong companies such as Telecom provide investment security and the income needed to supplement the government pension . Each viewpoint has merit and, if you are to make a considered judgement on Telecom, each should be taken into account . Knock them if you must and I would be the first to acknowledge that there is plenty to knock . But if equity is important then Telcom should be given credit for the telecommunications environment that exists - we have come a long way in a relatively short time . |
Raymondo (5284) | ||
| 261363 | 2004-08-16 06:42:00 | Good on you John, we need passion and belief. Nil carborrundum illegitimi. ;) And Raymondo, well said. There are other rational people on PF1 too. They are just more sensible than me about getting into these debates. :D |
Winston001 (3612) | ||
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