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Thread ID: 48035 2004-08-12 07:44:00 why do ppl hate m/s ferrite (4221) Press F1
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260957 2004-08-12 09:17:00 i guess ive never gotten over the fact that u can fix something that resides in ure house down a phone line.havin grown up in the video game era.first game being an atari tennis game on phillips k9 tv. i love the digital age. ferrite (4221)
260958 2004-08-12 09:19:00 DRDos. OEM contract's.
Borland make very good programing tools and MS decided they needed some of their talent and because they had so much dosh were able to entice 30 of Borland's top people away. There was no way Borland could compete with 40 odd billion in the bank. This was when they were first starting to think of NET.
Some might say that is just business but they were also hoping to cripple Borland by doing so.
As for most of their software being free could you please point me to it because I haven't found any. Don't say IE or any of those because you are still paying for it although the cost is not obvious 		mikebartnz (21)
260959 2004-08-12 09:27:00 > That's just big business. Why would they encourage
> competition, they're out there to make money like 90%
> of all business.

i reckon 100% of businesses are out to make money - if a business is not then it's either a hobby, a club, a charity or just plain stooopid

> I don't necessarily agree with some
> of their tactics or ethics but IMHO you should admire
> anyone who can start from nothing and create a
> corporation of MS size.

agree

I seriously doubt MS purposely designs / creates bad software - it happens that way because it is now so big that not one person would have an overall view - plus hackers make it worse by going for the tall poppy and now it doesn't matter what MS do because they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. So given the situation wouldn't you become arrogant too?

But help is on the way - given (enough) time they will rot from both the outside in and from the inside out - corporations aren't too different to monarchies and empires and think of all those that have fallen before us - plus every product has a life cycle. Who here is in the typewriter ribbon business? Anyone? Hellooooo? ..... anyone there!?! 		andrew93 (249)
260960 2004-08-12 09:39:00 > Yeah,
>
> DOS was pretty neat ... who invented Windows ....


Hmm, come to think of it who invented DOS and a certain browser that likes inviting nasties onto your hard drive. It would be quicker to name the MS originals.

> That's just big business. Why would they encourage competition....
Sorry for getting at poor missunderstood MS for doing what is their right as a business, eh! what happened to the law, ethics, customer relations, customer service, morals & mores, the arguement against future feeding, democracy. Yes, yes, I know there are mitigating circumstances, it's well known that most very successfull business people (and politicians for that matter) are sociopaths and most likely meglomaniacs as well, that's what drives them. So, somewhere along their journey they made a decision and setout on the road to becoming "successfull role models" rather than despotic criminals, sometimes it's just a bit hard to pick out the good-un's from the bad-un's because, on the one hand the good-un's can do and get away with X and on the otherhand the bad-un's can't do or get away with X (dependining on the efficiency of the legal system). So you see, I have no big issue with their basic software, although it can be intensely frustrating at times, it's their culture and what they feed us along with their software... the little added extras that get slipped in along the way including the EULA's and specious copyrights and patents (FAT anyone), the underhanded attempts/successes to manipulate choice and perceived opponents. Tall poppies my a***, weeds that require a bit of work with a scythe. The real problem is that too many people understand MS all too well.

Ah! I feel much better now, thank your very much.

Cheers Murray ;P 		Murray P (44)
260961 2004-08-12 09:45:00 > > hello i for one cant see why so many ppl in this
> forum bag m/s.most of there
> > software is free isnt it or am i wrong.
>
> Hmmm, I wonder... are MS still offering a reward for
> dobbing in people who use pirated software ?:|
Possibly. I am not 100% sure about that. Microsoft NZ are members of the BSA.

> No most of their software is not free and even when
> you have paid your hard earned cash for it you are
> unlikely to own it, MS tends to hold that privilege
> very dear.
So do others do they not? Have a read of the EULA from other software suppliers. This relates to Adobe, JASC, Symantec or Norton or whatever.

If during an install YOU decide to NOT accept the EULA usually the installation will fail. This means you paid for certain software that will not install due to the fact that you will not accept the agreement. You either read the agreement and accept or you don't. Your choice as I see it.


> It also depends on your definition of "free"
> free as in free beer or free as in freedom.
> Definitely not the latter, have a good read of an MS
> EULA before you give the big tick or OK on that
> "free" download ;)
>
> Free updates, nah... built in to the price if you've
> purchased a retail or OEM license, if your on a
> corporate subscription then updates are pay as you go
> if you want them or not, that's how I understand that
> to work anyway.
I have bought over the years MSDos 3.3, MSDos 5.0, Win3.11, Win95 (this upgraded to Win95 O/S2) Win 98 and later ( free upgrade to Win98SE ( second edition )). Later Win XP Pro and this has been upgraded to WinXP SP1 and yesterday WinXP SP2.
This works here now and I only have one issue. On my taskbar I have an extra icon in the form of a shield which indicates I am not using the Win Firewall or Antivirus. No I am not. But I know this.

I happen to be well balanced. I have a chip on both shoulders. :-) 		Elephant (599)
260962 2004-08-12 10:10:00 > As for most of their software being free could you
> please point me to it because I haven't found any.
> Don't say IE or any of those because you are still
> paying for it although the cost is not obvious
So if I want an operating system I guess I still pay do I not?
Does it just jump on to my PC without user intervention?

I will agree with you that other operating systems will work.
Are they free for you? Other operating systems require time to learn.
This along with new applications as well. What happens if you want to share an open office document with someone using MS Word or MSWorks?

Do we not see people in this forum getting file attachments with an extension like *.pspimage which of course will be the default for PaintShop Pro?

Operating systems and Applications are not free. They all cost time and money.

When was the last time you recompiled a kernel? When was the last time you put some new hardware on your main computer like a modem, scanner, USB device? 		Elephant (599)
260963 2004-08-12 10:26:00 > So do others do they not? Have a read of the EULA
> from other software suppliers. This relates to Adobe,
> JASC, Symantec or Norton or whatever.
>
> If during an install YOU decide to NOT accept the
> EULA usually the installation will fail. This means
> you paid for certain software that will not install
> due to the fact that you will not accept the
> agreement. You either read the agreement and accept
> or you don't. Your choice as I see it.

Yes so do others, does that make it right or equatable? I'm not sure if MS was the leader in more onerous instances of this practice but they have sure been leading the charge for a long time, where they go others are sure to follow.

And, yes again, under duress, see the paragraph above. It still does not make it right, just normalised to an extent that is worrying like violence.

> I have bought over the years MSDos 3.3, MSDos 5.0,
> Win3.11, Win95 (this upgraded to Win95 O/S2) Win 98
> and later ( free upgrade to Win98SE ( second edition
> )). Later Win XP Pro and this has been upgraded to
> WinXP SP1 and yesterday WinXP SP2.

You actually believe that you have not paid for this. I bet you think Flybuys or the warranty on a car or the maintenance period on a new house is free too. I have no problem with user pays, it's the pretense or delusion that things are otherwise that bothers me. Ultimately everything costs in some way, whether that be in dollars, effort or commitment is neither here nor there in the final balance although, I do believe the latter can be less painful.

> This works here now and I only have one issue. On my
> taskbar I have an extra icon in the form of a shield
> which indicates I am not using the Win Firewall or
> Antivirus. No I am not. But I know this.

Hopefully it will be the only thing you need to know about the new services and functionality of the software you have acquired.

> I happen to be well balanced. I have a chip on both
> shoulders. :-)

That's the idea ;)

Cheers Murray P 		Murray P (44)
260964 2004-08-12 11:10:00 Here we go... Growly (6)
260965 2004-08-12 11:16:00 Well,
There's free, like a "free lunch", and there's the "free speech" style.
Some things follow one "free", some the other, some feature both and some neither.
M/S have built a mighty Corporation, and I do admire them for that. Should I want a model for a great corporation (in money and growth terms at least), it would be wise to watch their ways and learn.
Should I want great software, different desires come into play. the great thing is , we have the choice. I have M/S software, and even use it sometimes.
When I go in to town, I have to put money in the @#! * meter. If I see an unmetered space, that is in the same general area, guess where I stop ? If that meter had a tendency to occasionaly stop me from getting my car out when I've done just what I always did, I tend to use deleteable expletives aimed at meters in general, and that one in particular. Doesn't help, but it doesn't hurt the situation much either.
Without IBM and MS, the personal computer industry was going nowhere fast, by accident almost, those two brought some standardisation into the industry, pretty poor standards compared to other contenders, but - a huge industry took off from that team's products. (Whether they intended to have the standard quite so open is open to conjecture) Apple's product was demonstrably better, but they had a closed, proprietary system, and fizzed along as a niche player. Other good systems vanished.
So, we are where we are because of a mix of Corporate might, and open standards.
As long as we are free to choose what ingredients to combine, we can all have the mixture we fancy.
R2 		R2x1 (4628)
260966 2004-08-12 11:17:00 Also well balanced - two left feet R2x1 (4628)
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