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Thread ID: 49339	2004-09-16 10:16:00	OT- new words	TonyF (246)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
272964	2004-09-17 08:16:00	> pure Capitalism as in the failing American model. > Can not work in the long term. Sorry Dianne but I can't let you away with that. The United States was a sparsely populated wilderness when Christopher Columbus chanced upon it in 1593. This nation of refugees from other countries has pursued Capitalism for 400 years. The $US is the strongest currency on the planet. The US is the major funder of the United Nations. And participant in peace-keeping duties around the world. Where were the Chinese in Yugoslavia? Kosovo? Somalia? What are they doing for the repressed and starving millions of people in North Korea? China is an ecological basketcase. Air pollution is significant. The Three Gorges project is drowning a huge stretch of river and disrupting the annual distribution of silt. Just like happened with the Russian dam at Aswan on the Nile. So in summary, we are a long way from being able to say the Americans have failed. So far on 400 years evidence, their brand of Capitalism is astonishingly successful. Incidentally, I feel bad. This thread has been mercilessly hijacked. :D	Winston001 (3612)
272965	2004-09-17 08:45:00	Winston, Yes it has (been side tracked), but we can have 2 conversations in 1 thread at once . You are right about the dams, let us not forget what Russia has done to the Aral Sea, also I can not agree with all the Lady has said but . America has massive divides in it . It has poverty, starvation, rampant crime, it is ethnically divided . It is in effect an Empire, and History has not been kind to Empires . The level of decadence, corruption, and unethical behavior is comparable with the end of the Roman Empire . Certain Insane people have started a chain of events that are making serious changes to the American way of life, this could result in some serious fundamental changes in the way America functions . The British and the Ottoman empires really whimpered away would you not say . Capitalism has always been and will always be with us but the purer form of capitalism may no longer be globally acceptable . As to a 1 party state not for this kid	drb1 (4492)
272966	2004-09-17 09:39:00	Yes Drb1, nothing lasts forever. America will fade, like the British and Ottomans as you rightly say. Probably China will be the dominant world economic power by the end of this century. They seem to be edging towards capitalism without democracy at the moment. History shows us that this is the most dangerous point for any political system. When current rulers grant small concessions of freedom to their people, a snowball starts leading to complete and dramatic change. One good example is the French Revolution. The King started granting more rights to the common people in the 1850s which eventually resulted in the revolution sweeping the monarchy and nobility completely aside. It'll be interesting to see if China has it's own version of the Fall of the Berlin Wall. Wait and see.	Winston001 (3612)
272967	2004-09-17 10:10:00	Winston, I read a couple of respetable articles about China and recent law changes. Both mentioned the fact that with the last law changes asserting and protecting private property rights, China was in fact only now communist in name alone. I would have to re read some issues to be shure, was not the warmongering of the King, combined with religious issues and state corruption the driving force behind the Red Terror, as opposed to liberlization? Is your lappie back yet.	drb1 (4492)
272968	2004-09-18 00:59:00	>>Incidentally, I feel bad . This thread has been mercilessly hijacked . Don't feel bad Winnie,that greenie had to be put in her place,you will note they don't let facts get in the way . >I often wonder how many dogs get found guilty at sheepdog trials . >A very trying and vexing question in my mind . Fear not Ell,all was well at the last trials I attended . All innocent by there very nature,	Young Tom (5503)
272969	2004-09-18 01:10:00	Young tom, She might come looking for you after that. D.	drb1 (4492)
272970	2004-09-18 01:29:00	>>>Sorry Dianne but I can't let you away with that. The United States was a sparsely populated wilderness when Christopher Columbus chanced upon it in 1593. "In fourteen hundred and ninety two, Columbus sailed the ocean blue" Gosh dont they teach history any more :) :)	Terry Porritt (14)
272971	2004-09-18 02:03:00	There is actually some debate going on as to the merits of the US vs EU form of democratic capitalism and the variants within, more pronounced in Europe, as you might expect. The US seems to be heading for more corporate power as the model of choice with democracy, almost, as a side show whereas Europe seems to be pulling in the social democracy way with corporate power being fitting into the ideals rather than setting them. You can see this at work with the EU commission often at loggerheads with the way US corp's want to operate in Europe. That's my understanding of it, anyway, plenty of gaps, maybe simeone would like to fill them in or bury it. I think perhaps, that Dianne used a poor example in China but, don't throw out the message in what she says, it still has validity. Cheers Murray P	Murray P (44)
272972	2004-09-18 02:33:00	Murray, What you say is correct, if the US continues on its current path, all the funds and power will be in the hands of very few . With catastrophic Soical and Ecological consequence . The more enlightened Europeans see this, and see that the US is allready really a Dollar Democracy . The last pauper/close to pauper/common man president was Eisenhower . Socially and Ecoligically responsible Capatalism is possible and neseccary, with out being rampantly Green . Or rampantly Black, like Bush and his Oil Baron buddies . D .	drb1 (4492)
272973	2004-09-18 03:32:00	> > "In fourteen hundred and ninety two, Columbus sailed > the ocean blue" > > Gosh dont they teach history any more :) :) Oh darn! I was dozing gently last night when the right date hit me. :) :)	Winston001 (3612)
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