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Thread ID: 50532	2004-10-23 15:11:00	Studying Monitor & Printer Repairs	Captive (3159)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
283983	2004-10-24 04:48:00	If a faulty computer PSU can put out a dangerous voltage on the output leads, that is a basic design problem that should be addressed, not something that can be prevented by over regulating computer servicing.	PaulD (232)
283984	2004-10-24 04:58:00	>>>If a faulty computer PSU can put out a dangerous voltage on the output leads... I am prepared to stand corrected, but I'd have thought it very unlikely , unlikely in the extreme, that a switched mode power supply as used in computers could fail in such a way as to give a high voltage output. There may well be a low voltage motherboard fault, ie a short which may cause the psu to fail, but that failurewouldnt result in mains voltage appearing at the psu output due to the isolation in the psu design.	Terry Porritt (14)
283985	2004-10-24 05:05:00	Does this help? . ess . govt . nz/yellowbg/faq_i_electricity . asp#Appliances" target="_blank">www . ess . govt . nz The relative section on appliances (yes, a computer is an appliance) is below: Appliances Q . What do I need to do in order to introduce a new appliance into the market? A . All electrical appliances sold in New Zealand are required to be safe . This is generally achieved with compliance with a recognised Joint AS/NZS Standard . Therefore, before introducing a new appliance into the New Zealand market, you should obtain documentation showing compliance with one of the recognised Standards listed in AS/NZS 4417, part 2 . A small range of electrical appliances requires approval or certification prior to sale . The list of these appliances can be obtained from ESS . Q . Where should I look for detailed information on installing electrical wiring and other products into a house, office, factory or construction site? A . This work should only be undertaken by licensed electrical workers . Detailed information is, however, available in the applicable AS/NZS Standard such as AS/NZS 3000 or its companion standards, which are available from Standards New Zealand . For information on new electrical products, refer to manufacturers' instructions . Q . What checks are necessary before I sell a second-hand appliance? A . All second-hand appliances are required to be either safe to use or be disabled from future use . Safety can be verified by having the appliance tested for compliance with AS/NZS 3760 by a competent person . A copy of the testing results should be retained by the seller and made available, if requested, to the purchaser . An appliance sold for recycling or a historic collection should be disabled and labelled as described in AS/NZS 4701 (copies of AS/NZS 3760 and 4701 can be obtained from Standards New Zealand) . Q . What testing should I do if repairing an appliance? A . After any electrical repairs to an electrical appliance have been carried out, the appliance is required by law to be tested in accordance with AS/NZS 3760 . It is advisable to keep a copy of the testing results and label the appliance in accordance with the requirements of the Standard . Q . I note that AS/NZS 3760: 2001 has been published and that its scope differs from that of AS/NZS 3760 1996 - particularly with regards to fixed RCDs . How does the latest version of the Standard apply in NZ? A . AS/NZS 3760: 2001 has been cited in Electricity Regulations 1997 under the 2002 Amendment . The Regulations cite AS/NZS 3760: 2001 and is recognised as applying only to portable equipment (fittings and appliances) . It would not apply to portable equipment associated with medical electrical or hazardous areas . This equipment would be covered by AS/NZS 3551, AS/NZS 2381 and Standards cited by those Standards . However, AS/NZS 3551 does not include requirements for portable RCDs . Therefore, until AS/NZS 3551 or AS/NZS 3003 covers portable RCDs, AS/NZS 3760: 2001(although not recognised for the purpose), could be applied to portable Type I RCD's . This would be provided that appropriate testing levels (10 mA sensitivity and 40 ms tripping time at rated residual) were employed . AS/NZS 3760: 2001 will also not be recognised for fittings (including RCDs) of electrical installations or connectable installations (which includes appliances) . These will be covered by the applicable Standards including NZS 3000 section 6 (and its successor) or, for medical or hazardous area locations, AS/NZS 3003 and the AS/NZS 2381 series . Q . What are the competency requirements of non-registered persons testing appliances and using 3760 type labels? A . Currently there are no established regulatory requirements that describe the competencies required for portable appliance testing . To have credibility, the least one must have is training by an electrician or service technician . Any trained person can use the labels . A project is proposed to review AS/NZS 3760 to establish a recognised competency regime for people carrying out testing in accordance with AS/NZS 3760 . It is not envisaged that the competency requirements for this testing would link to those associated with electrical worker registration . Q . When an unregistered person has tested an appliance and found it faulty, can that person repair the appliance? A . Only if it is a domestic appliance, it belongs to that person and they follow the requirements of ECP 50 . Otherwise, an electrical worker authorised to do that work, must do the repair . Q . Who is responsible for the safety of appliances sold in auction rooms? A . The Auctioneer's Act provides that the vendor is responsible for the goods sold "on behalf" by an auctioneer . Q . Where do you find the requirements for testing appliances in schools, hotels, etc? A . AS/NZS 3760 specifies the testing required, the labelling of tested equipment, and the time intervals between testing . Q . Is the polarity testing of extension cords detailed in AS/NZS 3760? A . No, this point has been noted and will be submitted for inclusion during the current review of AS/NZS 3760 . Q . Does AS/NZS 3760 cover repair work on appliances? A . AS/NZS 3760 covers the testing of appliances following repair and is recognised by the Electricity Regulations as the appropriate Standard for this type of work . A project to review AS/NZS 3760 that will include the drafting of specific requirements for the safety verification of appliances following repair, is under action . Q . AS/NZS 3760 is highly prescriptive, how is it applied and from when? A . The Electricity Regulations recognise AS/NZS 3760 as a means of testing to ensure operational safety of an appliance, cords and electrical equipment following repair as well as prescribing regular inspections . Q . Are there any limits on the sale of electrical equipment by homeowners? A . Yes . If it is a used appliance it must be tested to AS/NZS 3760 and tagged at time of sale or it has been disabled and marked in accordance with AS/NZS 4701 . Q . When should I issue an Electrical Safety Certificate? A . Electrical Safety Certificate can be used as an alternative to the labelling requirements of AS/NZS 3760 after repairs or testing have been carried out to an electrical appliance .	godfather (25)
283986	2004-10-24 05:30:00	so..........what's the bottom line here then ?.......is a person who is a certified hardware tech, but not electrically certified allowed to replace computer parts and then charge for that service.....IE: ram/cpu/psu/vid card/motherboard ............or what ?	drcspy (146)
283987	2004-10-24 06:55:00	Electronics repairs were not regulated in Australia, which was the only blot on the AUS/NZ "Joint Standards" landscape and prevented cross-recognition of electrical qualifications . Since NZ did not wish to dismantle a registration and licensing system for electronics technicians that was working successfully, Australia had to fall in line with NZ . Unfortunately they decided to reinvent the wheel, while at the same time introducing some peculiar Oz ideas, hence the problems screamed about in silicon Chip (with some considerable justification I might add) . New Zealand's system is simpler, easier and works . Cheers Billy 8-{)	Billy T (70)
283988	2004-10-24 08:57:00	> so..........what's the bottom line here then > ?.......is a person who is a certified hardware tech, > but not electrically certified allowed to replace > computer parts and then charge for that > service.....IE: ram/cpu/psu/vid card/motherboard > ............or what ? My view is this: (related to working on other than your own gear) Is it an appliance that connects to the mains? Yes/No If Yes, then You should be testing it for safety after any service. The Q and A above clearly state the Standards you should apply, and that you should be a "Competent person" to do the tests. A "certified hardware tech" has absolutely no validity for electrical competence, if you have not been appropriately trained for electrical safety and testing of such appliances for safety. If you were an electrical appliance repairer, and you put a new handle on an electric jug, you are expected (and required) to perform the safety tests, even though you have not worked on the 230v electrics. Can you explain why the Computer is any different from a safety point of view? A laptop would be OK, if it uses a separate power pack and you never serviced the power pack, but a PC has an "integrated" power supply that is an integral part of the PC. You must ensure it is electrically safe when it goes out the door. Whether you have worked on the PSU or not is irrelevant, it could have been leaking to ground with no earth connection in the cable when it came in. You cannot send it out like that. If a test showed it needed a repair, then a registered person with a practising licence must do the repair. Billy T may care to comment on the above? I actually think there are some imminent changes as well, that will require a safety verification label to be attached to all plug cords after any service, but don't see the documents anywhere.	godfather (25)
283989	2004-10-24 10:02:00	First off let me just state that this is just a general rant about the subject,and not a reply to anyone persons post . I don't think it matters how it’s worded at the moment, if they want to bring computers in under this regulation they will just reword it if it’s not clear enough . Personally its no big deal, Just a bit more cash for an irrelevant piece of paper, Those that don't care will continue not to, Incompetent people will still be incompetent no matter what they paid for their piece of paper and the government will carry on issuing more rules for the next group to come under their gaze . They only outcome of it will be more hard earned dollars from legitimate businesses wasted on bureaucratic rubbish, The piece of paper won't make someone any more competent to work on a comp then someone without it, I know a dozen technicians holding all sorts of fancy electronic degrees that I wouldn't let within 58 feet of a comp . I would bet there is zero history to make this step needed, nor will it stop the hobbyists, those that are already safe from comeback will continue to be . If we look at the TV repair industry, those that worked from home before regulation still work from home . Nothing has changed; those that don’t care about standards still don’t care . No lives will be lost, The word will remain unchanged apart from the extra dollars that will now reside in someone else’s bank account .	metla (154)
283990	2004-10-24 10:12:00	So is the situation that Reg 17.2B of the Electricity Regs says working on a device with a contained power supply isn't prescibed work but some other requirement says that the finished job must be tested which is? Monty Python would be impressed. The logic seems to be leading to a license being required to remove paper from a jammed photocopier. It makes as much sense.	PaulD (232)
283991	2004-10-25 00:59:00	Answering Godfather first: > Billy T may care to comment on the above? As usual Godfather's information is accurate and the conclusions he draws correct . Then Paul: > So is the situation that Reg 17 . 2B of the Electricity Regs says working > on a device with a contained power supply isn't prescribed work but > some other requirement says that the finished job must be tested Regulation 17 (2) (b) is quite explicit and I quote: Repairs or adjustments to works, electrical installations, fittings or electrical appliances or the replacement of extra-low voltage or mechanical fittings in electrical installations or electrical appliances, provided (in each case) that the work can be undertaken without removing any screens, covers or the like designed to prevent inadvertent contact with fittings intended to be supplied at voltages above extra-low voltage [ is deemed not to be prescribed electrical work ] The italics are mine, as the words have been shifted from the original context in order that the quote would make sense . For clarification, from the Electricity Act 1992, "Fittings" are defined as: "everything used or designed or intended for use in or in connection with the generation, conversion, transformation, conveyance or use of electricity" The power supply in a computer is a fitting used in connection with the conversion or transformation of electricity, therefore on the plain meaning of the words removal ov the covers on a computer to gain access to the internal components falls within the description of precribed electrical work . The key danger was alluded to by Godfather . Moulded power leads are known to suffer transposed phase and neutral conductors or faulty earth connections . Likewise and possibly more so, power points in residences and businesses are even more prone to reversed phase and neutral connections and faulty, disconnected or missing earths . Some may recall a recent and lengthy thread from a member who got "tingles" when he touched his computer . I have personally found a high quality power supply with phase and neutral connections internally reversed, and the risk goes up exponentially with cheap supplies from unknown manufacturers . It is important that appliances be tested properly to ensure their safety and the key statistic is not how many deaths or serious injuries occur each year in NZ from the work of appliance repairers, but how many have NOT occurred because the training and skill of licensed appliance repairers detected the faults and repaired them . I for one could list any number of defects I have detected by testing consumer equipment, many of which could almost certainly have killed or caused serious property damage if the appliance had not been repaired . Cheers Billy 8-{)	Billy T (70)
283992	2004-10-25 02:12:00	Billy T, sorry to keep harping on the subject but in the following www.med.govt.nz published by the Electrical Workers Registration Board (where I lifted my 1st quote) Reg 17(2)(b) is used to excuse computer servicing. Unless you open the PSU, the outer computer cover only exposes ELV. If there is anything official published since, it doesn't surface on casual googling	PaulD (232)
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