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Thread ID: 51082	2004-11-11 03:21:00	where to buy new computer?	mejobloggs (264)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
290533	2004-11-12 22:32:00	> Unfortunately you left the evolutionary ladder too > early. > Unkind, and unfair, but points for the laugh :D	Winston001 (3612)
290534	2004-11-12 22:46:00	Oops - Susan takes a different view :_| Back to the point . This thread was started by Mejobloggs, who is an experienced geek . He isn't someones aunt or a novice, so the advice he needs is higher end than simply buying a Dell or whatever . Into the mix comes Dad who needs to be convinced regarding commercial stability of the seller and the strength of their warranty . I notice many people saying you should "ask around" and find a good local supplier . I strongly agree . But - outside places like this forum (which is ideal) how does the average person who might like to be a bit more careful, find out? After all, a shop might only be recommended cos of a cousin, boyfriend, rumour etc . Opinions will differ . So I don't think it is simply a matter of 6 minutes enquiry to find something better . There have been plenty of posts here over the years about techs who are incompetent and take advantage . So what do we really expect people, who are willing to try, to do?	Winston001 (3612)
290535	2004-11-12 22:46:00	> I don't believe that any general home user needs to spend over $2000 for a home PC . Even at $2K I'd need to be convinced that they really needed need that sort of power . That is exactly what my view is also but you can't tell people that . The more money they spend the "better it must be" and the more "future proof" it is . > But the vast majority of sales people see either the profit margin or commision cheque and upsize them "do you want fries with that?" . A typical example is a friend who recently bought a $3000 PC . All he wants to do is play the odd game, surf the internet, chat to family overseas and update his CV . A cheap sub $1500 PC would have been just fine . The sales person cunfused him with all sorts of buzzwords, made him feel small for not understanding what he was talking about and effectively bullied him into spending twice as much as he really needed to . Have had several reports of this happening recently . I often get asked for my opinion on what people should buy and even though I tell them all they need is a sub-$1500 computer they end up spending $3000 just for emails and surfing the internet, thanks to the smooth-talking salesman . It's crazy . My personal view is that people find it too hard and daunting to do any homework, particularly for their first computer as they know nothing about them . And I mean nothing . Mention RAM or hard drive and you get a blank look . It is much easier to just waltz into Noel Leeming or wherever and pick one up like you would a toaster just because they like the look of it and the salesman convinced them it is a great buy . Those that do go into a computer specialist store and have one custom built for them (or choose one of the store's pre-built models) and then have problems that are a big hassle to remedy often get put off for life . They don't trust computer "specialists" again after that, like a friend of mine . She had so much go wrong with hers then the company went out of business so now she thinks she is better off buying a Dell . I don't particularly feel like trying to convince her otherwise because I don't know of any "good" computer stores to send her to . There is always someone who has had problems with all of them and word does get around . :-(	Susan B (19)
290536	2004-11-12 23:08:00	> Look, by all means keep discussing the new computer issue if you have to, but will you please both keep the personal insults out of it! Yes Susan, you're right. And I unreservedly apologise to that barb. However, in my defence, it was about time a low jibe went back the other way. Back to the debate. A couple of months ago I wanted a new PC because my family had high-jacked mine, and I wanted a bit more speed anyway. I researched what was avaiable and I bought the componants from various small retailers, just like Metlas, and assembled it myself. Why? First of all, because I have the know-how. Secondly because I enjoy both the research and assembly. The third reason is a bit more complicated... If I buy a mass produced PC from a big retailer the retailer is responsible if something goes wrong - by law. If they can't/won't help I can go to the importer or manufacturer. There is a good chance that they will still be in business to provide support (yes, I know about PC Co and the likes, but I would argue whether they're a big company in the grand scheme of things anyway). If I buy a PC from a local, small company there is a big chance that they won't be around in 6 months - just look around at the changing face of your High Street, how may PC stores have come and gone in thew last 5 years? Warranty effectively becomes viod simply because a lot of these companies import directly from Asia - store closes warranty is gone. I doesn't matter if my investment is only a few dollars for a sound card or CD drive or any other individual componant in my PC. But it does matter if it's the sum of those parts that's at stake. As I said before, most people simply want to 'cash and carry', so it becomes important for them to buy name brands from a big company - who the perceive as a reputable business. I would never buy anything electrical from The Warehouse, because I really hate queuing for a refund all the time. But for the right person a Dell from there is just right - it's good advice given the right scenario.	POTUS (5276)
290537	2004-11-12 23:13:00	> Unfortunately you left the evolutionary ladder too early . Yep, not one of the pluses in this debate nor is it one of the more informed comments . I would say, without really knowing but here goes, that Metla takes great pride in both building his machines and seeing them go out the door . Not the same market as the big store down the road and one that a small business, such as I suspect Metla's to be, should not eschew for a be all to all things market driven store, that'd be the quickest way to stomp out his existing hard earned reputation and custom . Susan, people are just as likely to be put off by bad experience with a store bought machine as a custom built one . The main difference is that the large "marketing/distribution stores" work on such a volume and range of products that they will recover from a bit of bad PR, the same can be and often is the death knell of a small local enterprise . Talking of big stores, I'm in the market for a DVD burner at the mo, in my desperation to source the one I want I have contacted a number of the big retailers in the hopes they'd have one hanging around on their shelves . What I was told by the sales people increasingly got up my nose, on the other hand, while computer shops tried to sell me an alternative brand, at least they recognised what it was I was talking about (snide remarks please ;) ) didn't confuse a DVD player with a comb drive and suggested drives that were up around the same quality level . One to nil to the computer stores . It got me to thinking that there must be an awful lot of consumer rights cases sitting in peoples homes in the form of electronic equipment . Murray P	Murray P (44)
290538	2004-11-12 23:57:00	When I got my first computer [1997], I was dead ignorant about them . The best advice I got, in my view, was the following [regardless of where you bought your computer] : 1 . When looking at package deals, make sure they state brand and type of components, eg . ram, psu, video card . If they didn't, to make sure you asked the shop what they were and then check on the net or in PC magazines to see comments on them . That it was a case of what they failed to tell you, rather than what they did tell you . 2 . Make sure ram, video card, etc was upgradeable, and that it was cheaper to get upgrades at the time of buying . 3 . In my case I wanted to scan photos etc so the video card specs became important and also the ram . Also chose AMD because had read rave reviews at the time . I didn't have much money but made sure what I did have was spent on the bits that were important to me . I still think you've got to look ahead, not just where you're at at the moment you buy . OK look at what you will use it for, but definitely look ahead . But that's just my opinion anyway . This forum is still the best for advice as far as I'm concerned, regardless of differing opinions . Marg	pulling hair out (4493)
290539	2004-11-13 01:25:00	> > I don't believe that any general home user needs to > spend over $2000 for a home PC. Even at $2K I'd need > to be convinced that they really needed need that > sort of power. > Have had several reports of this happening recently. > I often get asked for my opinion on what people > should buy and even though I tell them all they need > is a sub-$1500 computer they end up spending $3000 > just for emails and surfing the internet, thanks to > the smooth-talking salesman. It's crazy. Susan B is dead right. I ran a genealogy computer group for some years, and members constantly ran into the "upgrade" worm, and with pushy salespersons mouthing jargon. But one elderly lady member followed the Group's advice, did all her homework on what the words meant, and worked out what she would need. Went to a shop in her suburb and said " I want to buy a PC". Salesperson saw an elderly Granny with glasses, and rubbed his hands at the thought of a killing, until she quickly and precisely spelt out the spec of what she wanted. She said from then on she got a lot of respect !	TonyF (246)
290540	2004-11-13 02:23:00	PHO. Remember that in a few weeks whatever you buy will be declared obsolete and they will be expecting you to buy another one. When I bought my first computer about the only video card available was Cirrus Logic with 2 megs. Creative about the only sound card and CD . And ram was $99 a meg. Monitors were either 12 or 14 inch . And if you had a 400 meg hard disk you where at the top. And Metla wasn't aroud to tell you what to buy. Jack	JJJJJ (528)
290541	2004-11-13 03:29:00	>Many of us don't even open the bonnet to do anything but to add oil or water, but It's not that long ago that cars were basic enough to be built at home in the shed.< Elaborate on "not that long ago" I'm ancient and I can't rember anyone ever building a car and and I can do most things on a car (and have done "most things in a car') Whats a bonnet ? :-) But seriously adding oil and water is about all but mechanics can do nowadays, since opening a bonnet reveals what looks like a roadmap of a womans mind or the tokyo underground system. But computers are still basic enough to be built in a shed. >I don't believe that for a minute! Many, many people be a car, even a new one, based on redculous considerations like colour, space for pets, coffee cup holder etc. Cost is veery often a major consideration.< In the circle I get round in which admittedly is fairly neanderthalish Petrol consumption, road holding, ground clearance, towbar, good lights , reliabilty and part prices count big time. But I think we arguing the wrong argument here , no real parallels exist between cars and comps or tvs and comps , we are talking apples and coconuts >Again, if build or quality is the main issue, what aren't we all using Apple MAcs?< No parallel here either we are taking about computers no iconic fashion statements :-)	the highlander (245)
290542	2004-11-13 03:35:00	>opening a bonnet reveals what looks like a roadmap of a womans mind < Just in case I get flamed by female kind, this was a compliment, drawing parallels between an exquisitely crafted and extremely complicated piece of the finest technology the 21st century can produce. hopefully covered my ass on that one :-)	the highlander (245)
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