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Thread ID: 55600	2005-03-15 00:09:00	internet bank fraud	Adamho (7593)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
334214	2005-03-16 22:57:00	Don't laugh, most of the programmers don't know about these types of programs. Programmer knowledge != Consumer Knowledge. One software writer asked me to get hotbar off his wife's system, as he'd never heard of spybot/ad-aware	Edward (31)
334215	2005-03-16 23:20:00	sorry edward i couldn't help it ;) but yeah just another reason why media should be carefull when speaking to IT pro's. after all who would have to most exsperince with dealing with these type of problems, pc shop fixing home pc's or an IT specialist who looks after system that dosn't get infected (any decent IT will have the systems tightened up so much spyware would be near on impossible to be installed without IT approval).	tweak'e (69)
334216	2005-03-16 23:49:00	Which is probably why this thread was posted in this website in the forst place ;)	Edward (31)
334217	2005-03-17 00:53:00	Tweak'e and Goddie, I don't believe you can foist all responsibility on the user . For one it goes against the marketing strategies of PC and software vendors, and the banks to scare the crap out of existing and potential customers . Ease of use is one of the computer industry main marketing catch cries . Do you see hords of average users rushing off to download a Linux or BSD distro because Windows is Swiss cheese, nah, too different, too difficult, too much like hard work, not interoperable with Windows (thanks to MS) . What does the genericmegastore saleperson tell the prospect: "Before you purchase this computer I'm going to give you a quick 15 minute tutorial on safe and secure computing, here's a booklet and a DVD (video) on the subject which includes . . . . . . . " . Can you see that? well no actually, they are more likely to say: "It's all ready to go, just plug it in, turn it on, you'll be surfing the net within minutes, it's real easy, just pop the CD . . . . . " . Within days, if not hours, the thing is so full of malware the proud new owner thinks it is broken, it's not, it's just been set up to be a honeypot, it's working perfectly . We take for granted many of the steps needed to secure and maintaine our computers, but if most of us stuck our head under the hood of a car we would be lost pretty quickly . Unfortunately, just taking an unprotected PC for a spin on the net can get it infected, so getting a regular service is after the fact . Software and OS's in particular need to be stronger in the security department if they and the experience is to live up to the marketing hype . Sadly, the average store bought machine loaded with Windows, just does not cut it . If it were a vehicle it would be banned from the road . How do you fix it? Software standards would be a good start . You do not sell a PC with software that is below a certain standard of reliable security . I guess that would exclude a fair chunk of currently popular software, tough, alternatives are freely available :D Edit: Topical thread ( . pcworld . co . nz/showthread . php?t=55681" target="_blank">pressf1 . pcworld . co . nz) on the merits of consumer service and advice .	Murray P (44)
334218	2005-03-17 02:51:00	Also, when it gets to Internet banking we're talking about users with a wide range of PC knowledge/skill, which takes in a lot of people who know how to access the Internet, and that's about it . When you are dealing with users - and we all know people like this - who can't even install their own software off a CD, it is a huge ask to expect them to install, run and maintain antivirus software, a software firewall, plus take sensible precautions with spam and phishing emails . Further more, it can even be more dnagerous wehn they do install basic security software because they then kid themselves that they are protected and put their brains in neautral - opening attachements, failing to download updates, responding to what you might think are obvious phishing scams - all in the belief that the antivirus software and firewall they set up 6 months ago is magically coping with every potential threat . There is no point blasting such users over what appears to be their stupidity -- you cannot expect every member in society to achieve the same level of technically literacy . Technology, both at the client end and at the service providers end (the Bank) as to move forward to negate the effect of user stupidity .	Biggles (121)
334219	2005-03-17 03:10:00	well you either are going to get peole losing their money or the banks will remburse those who loose their money at everyone elses exspence . in either case people are going to have learn how to look after their pc's or the banks will have to force them to look after it, which is exactly what they have just started to do with this banning of people infected with marketscore .	tweak'e (69)
334220	2005-03-17 04:15:00	Internet banking in New Zealand is VERY risky. All you need is someone's login name and password, and the you can transfer funds anywhere. I have a flatmate from the Netherlands, and Internet banking there is state-of-the-art, unlike our pre-historic situation here in New Zealand. It would be neigh on impossible to crack the system they use. They have a device that they put their ATM card into (Like a calculator), which gives them an authuorization code, that they have to input, as well as a name and password. Check out a demo here: www.abnamro.nl Beware it is written in Dutch though, however, viewing the images will give you a better understanding of a secure internet banking experience.	Dragonslayer (512)
334221	2005-03-17 05:02:00	Make the user sit an exam..... prove themselves proficient to use a computer, knowledgeable about Anti Virus software, how to update it, the uses of a Firewall, and what a Trojan or key logger is etc Then they can have their wings and recieve a password to use internet banking etc. There are many people who have computers and have no idea what they are capable of and the havoc they can cause. I have recently met people who can't even tell me what their email address is without explanation of what it is and what it's used for.... upon sending said file to them, I had to tell them how to open it and use the file I had sent them. Yet they are on the web, no firewall or antivirus program etc... Yet persons of this ilk are given access to their finances over the web and can be hacked and their accounts siphoned..... Who pays for it, does the hapless newbie take the hit or does the bank reimburse them. If it's the bank, well most people would say that they make **** loads of profit and that they can afford it.... trouble is that the profit is made from every transaction that we all make, activity fees, account fees, cheque fees, cash handling fees, proccessing fees, interest etc Therefore everyone in this case is subsidising those that are TOO DAMN STUPID to use or even own a computer by increased fees so that the banks and their shareholders can earn their level of profit deemed to be extracted from those using said banks services. Gee you'll even be able to buy yourself an insurance policy shortly to insure yourself and your money from such financial disaster.... If those that wish to use the service were vetted and deemed suitable to operate the service in a knowledgeable and secure manner then there would not be the said problems occuring, in the meantime the lowest common denominator rules. :2cents:	EX-WESTY (221)
334222	2005-03-17 05:23:00	[edit: This post has been removed due to offensive content written in Arabic and the user has now been banned - Jen (Moderator) ] [edit - update 18/03/05 It turns out I was deliberately misinformed by someone on what you had written in Arabic. Your ban has been lifted, and I apologise for this. Your post wasn't offensive, but was certainly not applicable to a computer forum so I have left it removed - Jen]	ayman (7595)
334223	2005-03-17 05:38:00	Make the user sit an exam..... prove themselves proficient to use a computer, knowledgeable about Anti Virus software, how to update it, the uses of a Firewall, and what a Trojan or key logger is etc Then they can have their wings and recieve a password to use internet banking etc. :2cents: Interesting idea, and ideally everyone should have basic computer skills before being unleashed on the world. But, as BB has mentioined regarding people feeling bullet proof with AV and firewall installed, people will feel more capable than they are. And wheras they only have a snapshot of the conditions at any given time so, what do you do a few months down the track when a new exploit is found or new software is launched, run a new exam? I'ts somewhat similar to asking home owners to undergo training and licensing before the can purchase a house so that they can avoid the pitfalls of leaky building syndrome, rather than changing the faulty product itself and the system that allows it to be so. Everyone who owns a home will become a weathertightness expert, the (sub)standards and "tradesmen" who provide the leaks can carry on their merry way!!	Murray P (44)
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