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Thread ID: 55600	2005-03-15 00:09:00	internet bank fraud	Adamho (7593)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
334174	2005-03-15 08:58:00	As a follow up to Safari, is it not possible to look over someone's shoulder while they're entering their pin ? ;) yes, just like someone can look over your shoulder while typeing your password into a pc.	tweak'e (69)
334175	2005-03-15 09:11:00	Yea, but the thing about ATMS - and why they're more secure - and thus more popular, is that they're also a 2 input system. U need not only the PIN, but the card itself for it to work	Fergie (6508)
334176	2005-03-15 09:13:00	its all a curly problem. its not the banks problem that people pc's are compromised, people simply don't care if their pc is compromised untill they lose money. and when they do care human nature means most won't use the tools properly so they end up being infected. While I agree that how people use their computers, particularly online, is a large part of the issue but, as you have alluded to elsewhere in your post the problem is far more complex than that with. Along with the MS, ISP's/telecoms, computer tech's, computer retailers and the banks themselves all implicated. The banks have promoted online banking as a convenience, anything to get customers (or is that consumers now) out of the building. IMO, they therefore have a responsibility to make it as secure as reasonably possible, ie, as secure as dealing with a teller who follows correct procedure. A banks primary function after all, is to secure your money, is it not? Banks charge not inconsiderable fees to secure your money, do they not? Is it reasonable to expect that they make every endeavour to carry out what they charge you for, despite what your shortcomings may be? (I'm not being PC here, idiots get charged the same as geniuses, the service should be set to the same, appropriate, common denominator, whatever that is). It should be a banks problem that peoples PC's are compromised, at least as much as the people themselves. If they ignore the issue or pass it off, they are dealing with reality or another agenda is getting in the way. Marketing = $ perhaps?	Murray P (44)
334177	2005-03-15 13:04:00	Have you or has anyone you know been the victim of an internet bank fraud? We are urgently looking to talk to you . The Sunday programme on TVNZ is putting together an item on the issue . Adam Hollingworth Producer Sunday Hello Adam . I applaud the idea of highlighting internet fraud, Nothing is achieved by ignoring such serious issues . The Southland times has a front page article of an example of one recent internet bank fraud . The ability of internet scams whether its internet banking or trade/auction sites or the creation of legitimate looking scam Websites is all to easy . With internet banking in particular the vulnrability of using Microsoft Internet Explorer increases the chances of surrendering valuable information to third party users . Vulnrabilities emerge weekly and patches are released to cure the latest security issues . Often the patches are a success but far to often further issues or fuctional problems are created by such releases . Sadly Microsoft has some major serious issues with software vulnrabilities and security flaws . An example of this is Windows XP SP2 which is around 275 mb of software . It was released to curb flaws in the microsoft product range . For many people this service release has been an improvement,but for others the experience has created a seriously slow operating system and often a raft of error codes . Since the release of XP SP2 further security flaws of a critical nature have become evident . For now the most secure Windows option would have to be the internet Browser known as Mozilla Firefox over Microsoft Internet Explorer . With in Mozilla you have the capability of using window pop-up stoppers and extension add on security with the ability to filter adds and extra speed and stability for internet surfing . Secondly but also absolutely required is a proven software firewall which rates well . Zonealarm pro is a smart choice for the home user . Also required is a rated choice of junk file cleaner such as the respected CCleaner, which should be activated at the end of any pc session . AVG Version 7 free virus checker is a smart choice for the home user with sound email filtering and regular updates . For Corporate computer users, the added security of hardware firewall routers and security robust software is a must . By taking pro-active steps to secure your computer is a must . Often the people who have considered all is well, but have not maintained software, end up victims . If you do not have the ability to enable a resonable secure operating system yourself . Get help . Andy	yep (7594)
334178	2005-03-15 18:05:00	you have banks which only accept the most likly compromised browser, so those sicurity minded folk who use alternative browsers can't use online banking (i have noticed some banks have changed this latly). You sure about that? I've been accessing ASB and National Bank online via Firefox for some months now? Lo.	Lohsing (219)
334179	2005-03-15 19:56:00	You sure about that? I've been accessing ASB and National Bank online via Firefox for some months now? Lo. How long did it take them to be compatable with alternate browsers Lo, do the websites interact correctly with these browsers and, if not, would the average Joe be able to fix it or would the simply give up and revert to IE. While following a string on on another subject at the Reg, I came across this on 2 stage authentication (www.theregister.co.uk). One good thing about the Reg & Inq, is that they break things down to relatively simple terms.	Murray P (44)
334180	2005-03-15 21:28:00	You sure about that? I've been accessing ASB and National Bank online via Firefox for some months now? thats why i said " (i have noticed some banks have changed this latly)". i personally don't use online banking due to the fact my pc is often connected to infected systems. therefore i don't know when they chnaged it. i had someone try online banking with opera and it acctually work wheres the last time i tried it (months ago) it wouodn't run (as the banksused activeX componants). It should be a banks problem that peoples PC's are compromised, at least as much as the people themselves. If they ignore the issue or pass it off, they are dealing with reality or another agenda is getting in the way. Marketing = $ perhaps? totally! however have you seen any bank try to educate their customers about the problem?? i doubt it. they most likly won't in fear of scareing them off useing online banking. in all honestly i really doubt the sunday program will do a decent report. if they do, it will be an NZ first. no other tv program has done a decent job of it yet. in case Adam Hollingworth is actually reading this......no i haven't had internet banking fraud, however i have saved over a dozen people from it (infected with keyloggers/password trojens and they have had to change all passwords etc). the "marketscore" varity of infection is comman, almost every pc i see is infected with some sort malware.	tweak'e (69)
334181	2005-03-15 21:34:00	Westpac page works perfectly under Firefox. Seeing as my "make every machine get a service" idea was headed of at the pass,run down, then slaughtered, Perhaps the banks should recomend to their customers via the front page of their sites that they get the machine serviced if they are unsure about its status.....	Metla (12)
334182	2005-03-15 21:51:00	As for ATM fraud, sure someone can watch you type in your pin but they still have to steal your card. The kind of people that will steal your card and pin would most likely steal your wallet and any cash/valuables on your posession also. So I fail to see any safer way of carrying currency at present, an ATM card and pin is still harder to gain access to than cash in your pocket.	Sb0h (3744)
334183	2005-03-15 22:01:00	Seeing as my "make every machine get a service" idea was headed of at the pass,run down, then slaughtered, Perhaps the banks should recomend to their customers via the front page of their sites that they get the machine serviced if they are unsure about its status..... actually i think your right on the money here. it wouldn't be to hard to make a bank app that check your pc for possible infections before allowing you to connect to the online banking. eg instead of useing a browser you use a stand alone app which does its own sicurity checks to make sure it, your pc and net connection are not compromised.	tweak'e (69)
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