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Thread ID: 138306	2014-11-08 05:36:00	NAS just reported lost drives - Raid Issues?	Gedc (11466)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1387799	2014-11-08 05:36:00	Been using a Netgear Readynas NV2+ for last 20 months as a storage location for my media. It has 4x3gb WD Barracuda drives in a Raid 5 setup. It's accessed through a media PC running XBMC that sits behind the telly. Today the media pc couldn't connect with the NAS. Came through to where NAS is located and on the NAS LCD it said Vol C dead then rotated through Drive 1 Failed, Drive 2 Failed, Drive 3 Failed, Drive 4 Failed. It was unresponsive to the power button so I had to hard power down and upon powering back up it appears to not be able to see Disk 2 and 4. I'm thinking I have at least one bad disc as I can hear some repetitive clicking when the unit is booting. What are the odds the other disc has failed at an identical time...or is it more likely a glitch on it caused by the first disc dying? Reason I ask is i though Raid 5 would have offered me sufficient ' redundancy' so that if one disc died it could rebuild the array when I replaced it. However, with 2 dead discs I believe my data is basically toast... Any thoughts or advice appreciated. I'm now contemplating how to backup a backup for future ! Ged	Gedc (11466)
1387800	2014-11-08 09:16:00	As you have just discovered RAID is not a backup and if you have a backup there's no need for RAID. I'm a firm believer that RAID for home use adds more problems than it solves. If you do use RAID at home consider simply RAID 1. I'd try Netgear tech support first and see if they can help as they probably use a format that windows can't read and any diagnostic or testing software You may want to try would possibly either not recognise the drive or might destroy data (if there's any left). In any case you'd have to remove the drives and connect them to a PC to run any. I have netgear stora I used for a while, I don't like it much at all so I took the drives out and put them in my PC. If you are resigned to the data being gone you could try that though. So do you have Seagate Barracuda drives or some kind of WD ones? I'm pretty sure there is no WD barracuda. Most standard or green drives are not intended for RAID use and can randomly drop out of an array if used for that purpose. That's why there are RAID edition drives and WD red etc which are specifically designed for RAID. Standard hard drives can work but it's a risk. You may have 1 or more bad drives or 1 or both of them may have just dropped out of the array making it impossible to rebuild as you'd need at least 2 working for that. Good luck.	dugimodo (138)
1387801	2014-11-08 09:37:00	Have a read of this. www.zdnet.com With 4 Drives RAID1 isn't possible, but RAID10 is.	Alex B (15479)
1387802	2014-11-08 11:05:00	With 4 Drives RAID1 isn't possible, but RAID10 is. Depends. In a NAS probably not. As a single volume, no it isn't. But as 2 separate RAID 1 arrays it still is. Not that I'm a RAID expert, I abandoned the whole thought of it after trying it a couple of times. Too many hassles for not enough reward, better to just keep a backup of anything important.	dugimodo (138)
1387803	2014-11-08 18:26:00	You are of course correct . The drives are seagate barracudas . Ive since removed the drives from the NAS and connected them all up to the pc and used some free software to assess etc but it could only physically see 3 of the 4 drives . Tried to rebuild the raid but after 20 mins said the drives weren't in raid 5 format - they are xraid2 which i believe is netgears version of raid 5 . So for the knowledgable amongst us . . . . I went down the nas route for my media to provide redundancy for this very issue . . . however, having read some feedback here and in the link it would appear i was mistaken . Short of having another NAS backing up the "media" NAS what options exist . I appreciate cloud storage but we are talking about 3 to 4 Tb of data etc . Is there another Raid setup that would be more suitable or is it a case of lots of hdd's with multiple copies? Thanks again . Ged	Gedc (11466)
1387804	2014-11-08 21:08:00	Short of having another NAS backing up the "media" NAS what options exist . I appreciate cloud storage but we are talking about 3 to 4 Tb of data etc . That is the actual answer :) You should never have all your data and backups on the one device . If something happens to the device it can fry or lose everything including the backups . Its Always better to have your data on one device and backed up somewhere else . What you can do is either get an external HDD, ( cheapest option) and back up to that, or have another NAS someplace on your LAN backing up the original . The other thing I do quite often is suggest to people if they have an old PC just laying about doing nothing, turn it into a NAS -- there's plenty of free software about, some is easier to use than others . Freenas is very popular, but you do need to read up on how to set it up, its not simply plug in and it works . One That I use is the free version of Open-E . open-e . com/products/data-storage-software-v7/" target="_blank">www . open-e . com I only use the Free which is limited to 2TB storage because the paid versions which allow more are to expensive, BUT the software does work very well . The unit I have it on is only a Atom CPU with 1GB RAM, streams music and video with no problems :)	wainuitech (129)
1387805	2014-11-09 00:21:00	...and if you have a backup there's no need for RAID. Really!? That's a pretty bold statement. If you want to restore from backup every time a disk dies, then sure, you're correct.	WarNox (8772)
1387806	2014-11-09 01:32:00	Really!? then sure, you're correct. Yep, I am. Talking about a home environment. Most people use RAID5 to protect against hard drive failure. Backing up your important files does the same thing only much better. Honestly I think a lot of people just don't want the hassle of regular backups and use RAID as a substitute, which it isn't. If you want to restore from backup every time a disk dies Absolutely. I have 11 hard drives here at the moment. Most are over 2-3 years old. None have failed. Hard drives do fail, but for the average home user backing up your important files is the only protection you need, it's not like you'll be restoring from that backup frequently.. As I stated RAID just adds more issues and is no substitute for a backup. So yes I'll say it again. If you have a backup you don't need to mess around with RAID arrays. The problem is people put their data on a RAID5 array or similar and assume that makes it safe when it fact it is debateable wether it's more reliable than a single drive. See the link Alex posted. In an enterprise situation with critical data and a requirement for near 100% uptime, you use some kind of RAID - and not the cheapo home version either. At home with your media files save yourself the headache and just back up what's important. That way if a single drive fails you lose nothing, if a RAID controller fails you lose nothing,if your PC dies - there's a good chance you can transfer the hard drive and keep it's contents, etc. If you think rebuilding a RAID5 array is quicker and easier than copying and restoring from a backup I'd dispute that.	dugimodo (138)
1387807	2014-11-09 02:09:00	Also, In an enterprise / Business situation you will find there should be other backups as well. Its the old story, if the Server (which in most cases it will be in a business) fails and takes out all the drives then everything is gone. All it takes is a PSU to fail and for a split second put 240V through the computer, then everything that's plugged into it will fry. This goes for any device, NAS, Server PC etc.	wainuitech (129)
1387808	2014-11-09 03:45:00	Depends. In a NAS probably not. As a single volume, no it isn't. But as 2 separate RAID 1 arrays it still is. Not that I'm a RAID expert, I abandoned the whole thought of it after trying it a couple of times. Too many hassles for not enough reward, better to just keep a backup of anything important. RAID10 will give you the same amount of protection as RAID1 and the same amount of storage without having to manage 2 partitions in this case. People need to understand that the point of RAID, which is the ability to span onto multiple disk, increase iops and minimise downtime, backups is a completely separate issue.	Alex B (15479)
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